200plo: Do we shove here w/o FE, or just call?
 

New to the table.

I was wondering about what the best play here is. I'm not folding, but do I call and try to get SB to call as well? And then I can fold to a safe turn?

Plan is to call flop, and get it in on any non-pairing turn.

Poker Stars
Pot Limit Omaha Ring game
Blinds: $1/$2
4 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $298.50
Hero: $198
SB: $392
BB: $211.40

Pre-flop: (4 players) Hero is Button with 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
UTG folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $7</font>, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($21, 3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $18</font>, SB calls, <font color="#cc0000">BB raises to $91.95</font>, <font color="purple"> Hero ??? </font>

Re: 200plo: Do we shove here w/o FE, or just call?
 

I like a call.

Re: 200plo: Do we shove here w/o FE, or just call?
 

just push.

Re: 200plo: Do we shove here w/o FE, or just call?
 

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I like a call.

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#2

Don't deny yourself positional advantage by shoving a draw against an obviously strong hand.

Re: 200plo: Do we shove here w/o FE, or just call?
 

I think you have a few too many chips left to push here since you'd like to be able to fold the turn if the board pairs, but you'd definitely prefer it if SB folded since there's a good chance you're sharing outs.

Re: 200plo: Do we shove here w/o FE, or just call?
 

this is why i always have a coin handy... head i call tails i shove... both plays have there advantages and disadvantages...its great to be able to fold to a bad turn, its also great to knock out the sb who more often then not has some of your outs...also raising might win you the pot here and now (although that prob happens less then 5% of the time, you cant totally discount the chances of bottom set laying down here)...in the long run i think both plays run fairly close... flip a coin and let fait decide

Re: 200plo: Do we shove here w/o FE, or just call?
 

If you can`t find a fold on the turn for any reason then shove when your equity is highest.

Re: 200plo: Do we shove here w/o FE, or just call?
 

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I like a call.

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Re: 200plo: Do we shove here w/o FE, or just call?
 

I prefer a call here.

I just assume you have no fold equity and your most likely up against a set on a board this dry with no flush draws. If the board pairs on the turn, you can fold and save yourself money but if the turn brings a straight card, I can't say the same about villain being able to fold his top set.

You have a big advantage here by having position so if your straight card does hit, its up to the BB to decide to put the rest of his chips in or not.

If the turn bricks, you'll just have to take a pot odds standpoint. Any spade and you'll definitely have to get it in on the turn.

Re: 200plo: Do we shove here w/o FE, or just call?
 

Position shmosition, pot on turn if we call is bigger than 2x our stack. Only call if you're ever planning on folding to, for example, a T turn, but even that may be a mistake against aggro players, so just shove now and ride the variance train to busto/robusto.

Re: 200plo: Do we shove here w/o FE, or just call?
 

I think this is a shove. The only card I see myself folding the turn to is another 10. I like shoving because think gives us the most value. We might pick up the pot here. We def. have a ton of outs to the nuts/winner and who's to say if we call and turn our straight that villan will pay us off? I just think if I'm willing to put ~80 in calling here, I should be willing to shove and "ride the variance train" (I like that wazz).

Oh, and positionshmosition is right. If we call here, we only have ~ 1/3 pot bet left assuming the SB calls as well. If we get it to HU, we have slightly less than half pot. Calling doesn't seem to add up for me.

Re: 200plo: Do we shove here w/o FE, or just call?
 

[ QUOTE ]
just push.


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Re: 200plo: Do we shove here w/o FE, or just call?
 

youre not picking up the pot here ever if u shove, half of the eff stacks are in the middle already and villain checkraisaes preraiser after bet+raise.

calling makes sense since villain will neevr fold when we make the straight but we can fold when the board pairs.

out of a bigger perspective maybe shoving is btter though?

Re: 200plo: Do we shove here w/o FE, or just call?
 

Do we think the ONLY hand he C/R here is a set? Ifso, I'd love to play in your regular game!

Re: 200plo: Do we shove here w/o FE, or just call?
 

People are capable of checkraising in this spot with hands like a pair and a gutshot and would fold to your 3bet here as well, so you certainly have fold equity.

Re: 200plo: Do we shove here w/o FE, or just call?
 

[ QUOTE ]
People are capable of checkraising in this spot with hands like a pair and a gutshot and would fold to your 3bet here as well, so you certainly have fold equity.

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I couldn't agree more! I think we lose the fold equity e have by calling. I also think we pretty much give away our hand here by calling and lose some equity if we hit the turn.

The more I've thought about this, it's a snap shove for me with 100b.

Re: 200plo: Do we shove here w/o FE, or just call?
 

misread post thought it went bet+raise on flop then checkraised by bb.

but anyway will people really fold pair+gutter? sure its not a drawy flop so maybe.


my standard move is also shove. were a little bit ahead of twopair anyway and a lil better than 40/60 dog against set so if he ever has worse and can fold shoving must be correct?

Re: 200plo: Do we shove here w/o FE, or just call?
 

You should only ever just call in this spot if your opponents range is exactly a set. Even in that rare situation (assuming he has TT) you will only fold the turn 6/43 times, or about 13% of the time. Otherwise shove all day, you don't need fold equity.

Re: 200plo: Do we shove here w/o FE, or just call?
 

You have 42% vs TTxx and that is enough to pay 173 to win 230

Re: 200plo: Do we shove here w/o FE, or just call?
 

As you said, I would call on the flop, and go all the way if the board doesn't pair on the turn. I don't think the BB is folding to a re-raise, especially since there was a caller in between you, so he probably has something.

Re: 200plo: Do we shove here w/o FE, or just call?
 

i check behind here on the button alot. just call now. shoving does have its advantages, but i still think id call.

Re: 200plo: Do we shove here w/o FE, or just call?
 

i think everyone misread the post. the only interesting part of the hand is that SB called in between...

entirely depends on what range SB stacks off with on the flop vs calls the raise to 90 if we just call etc...

Re: 200plo: Do we shove here w/o FE, or just call?
 

anyway out of a bigger perspective if we just call here we kind of have to call TTT too no? if not when we shove why should villain call with bottom/middle set? i mean what do we shove here if not this? well be too easy to read.

might not be a problem on his level perhaps but if villain thinks.

Re: 200plo: Do we shove here w/o FE, or just call?
 

We partially shove here so that he has to call with even top two, so that when we do in fact turn up with TTT he's in trouble.