200plo: I got really confused here
 

Villain is pretty new at the table. He's limped in EP before, but I don't know anything more than that.

I havent seen him 3bet before, but then again, not many hands.

PF is borderline, or perhaps just bad. I usually fold, perhaps limp here, I don't know why I raised.

Poker Stars
Pot Limit Omaha Ring game
Blinds: $1/$2
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $243.75
Hero: $200
CO: $141.10
Button: $198.30
SB: $280.45
BB: $136.85

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is UTG+1 with 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
UTG folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $6</font>, 3 folds, <font color="#cc0000">BB raises to $16</font>, Hero calls.

Flop: 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($33, 2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

Turn: J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($33, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">BB bets $20</font>, <font color="purple">Hero ??? </font>

Re: 200plo: I got really confused here
 

I'd just reaise.

Re: 200plo: I got really confused here
 

big draw? 2 flush draws and 2* 3 way str8 draws

Re: 200plo: I got really confused here
 

your pre-flop play is a bit lose, but not as such terrible,,, i generally either limp or fold this hand however you raised..fine.. got re-raised by the BB.. ok this generally means from most tightish players aces...and your in position, so you call isnt terrible..

flop was checked...ok..i still cant help but think that this guy hits his top set and wants to get some action out of it, why else check after three betting heads up???....

Now turn comes....brings two flush draws and infinate amount of straight draws... so he decides its time to put a bet in.... but ohhh.. you've hit the second set, second nuts at this time.....this does make things interesting..

Without any knowledge on the opponent and given the fact that he three bet from the blinds there is just toooooooo high a chances he has top set here. Also you dont have any of the back up flush draws that can bail you out,,, however the large amount of draws may work in your favour, since it might quite easily slow him down if they do come and you decide to just call here.

My recommendation here is to just let this one go, in my mind he has aces faar to often here for you to shove. And if you do shove, what worse hand is he going to be calling with??there are a few like two pair and big flush draw, or kings with hearts, or something like k-q-a-t with some hearts, but they are in the minority, and you arnt that huge a fav against them.... your other play is just call this bet, hope the river does come a non-repeater flush card and have him either check it down with you.. or bet big and make it an easy lay down... but what do u do when he bets pot again on a safe card???

its a fold in my opinion, i have ran into aces far to often in these spots to make a call/shove here.

Re: 200plo: I got really confused here
 

This is not aces that often. Aces would not want to give flush draws a free card.

Re: 200plo: I got really confused here
 

SHOVE&gt;FOLD&gt;CALL

Re: 200plo: I got really confused here
 

[ QUOTE ]
This is not aces that often. Aces would not want to give flush draws a free card.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: 200plo: I got really confused here
 

I can`t put this guy on AA.
If he had it he was prolly trying to CR flop and since you checked behind there is no way he bets less then a pot on that turn.
Repot/shove...whatever.

Re: 200plo: I got really confused here
 

sadly, I probably call this

Re: 200plo: I got really confused here
 

Let me add to that. If he doesn't have AA he's even more likely to pot the flop in order to rep the aces and take down the pot without a made hand. I still laugh sometimes when I reraise with a double suited rundown, the flop comes similar to this, and I fire pot and everyone instafolds. Basically I think a check here is more likely to be Aces than not.

Re: 200plo: I got really confused here
 

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[ QUOTE ]
This is not aces that often. Aces would not want to give flush draws a free card.

[/ QUOTE ]

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so aces with a flushdraw?

Re: 200plo: I got really confused here
 

i dont think you could lay this down on the turn with position, OOP i might fold. id call and see what he does on the river.

Re: 200plo: I got really confused here
 

So I called, and the river brought the 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. He checked. My plan?

Re: 200plo: I got really confused here
 

people are so wekatight and could chedck AAA because of the possible straight.

i doubt he calls with worse but hard to tell with not more info.

on the othe rhand i doubt he checkriases here ever.

o u check u get to see his hands, if he doesnt have AAxx thats valuable info, if he does it is as well as u will see he doesnt valuebet light and is trappy player.

dont know what weighs more actually...

Re: 200plo: I got really confused here
 

I like the thought of calling the turn bet. We may be winning. And if we're not, there are many cards which will let us take the pot away with a bet since we are in position.

Re: 200plo: I got really confused here
 

[ QUOTE ]
So I called, and the river brought the 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. He checked. My plan?

[/ QUOTE ]

Bet 1/2 pot (or whatever number gets you the best call-to-payoff rate) and take it down. I'd be pretty sure I'm winning. Be ready to fold to a raise.

Villain would be crazy to play AA like this. But he may be "waiting for safe cards" to bet his top set. Who knows since he's new to you. And he could have backed into T9-straight.

Re: 200plo: I got really confused here
 

Folding this preflop makes your life so much easier. If you're seriously playing JJ74 for 3 bets, how do you not raise the turn. You're virtually never going to see a better board for you hand.

So either don't play it or go crazy when the jack hits, and maybe fold to a reraise. Don't put yourself in these positions with mediocre hands.

As is, b/c the river.

Re: 200plo: I got really confused here
 

[ QUOTE ]
PF is borderline, or perhaps just bad. I usually fold, perhaps limp here, I don't know why I raised.


[/ QUOTE ]

folding is really nitty in these spots, i raise maybe 50% of the time here

i really dont get folding these type of hands - you get tonnes of value when you hit top set, and if you are only raising double suited rundowns and AAxx you are far too expliotable. i have tonnes of players like these in my PT database and they are lucky to be beating the game by more than 2bb/100, most are marginal losing players as at lower stakes they just get eaten by rake

Re: 200plo: I got really confused here
 

[ QUOTE ]
i really dont get folding these type of hands - you get tonnes of value when you hit top set,

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That's the point. So, you're playing the hand only to hit top set, and can't get any value out of it otherwise?

Why not just play Hold 'em? You're practically playing JJ anyways, unless you're banking on that 356 flop, with some invisible redraws to fall back on.

Re: 200plo: I got really confused here
 

I bet 44$, and he c/miniraised. Everybody folds?

Re: 200plo: I got really confused here
 

I'd fold this PF, LDO

Re: 200plo: I got really confused here
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i really dont get folding these type of hands - you get tonnes of value when you hit top set,

[/ QUOTE ]

That's the point. So, you're playing the hand only to hit top set, and can't get any value out of it otherwise?

Why not just play Hold 'em? You're practically playing JJ anyways, unless you're banking on that 356 flop, with some invisible redraws to fall back on.

[/ QUOTE ]

meh AAxx thru to 77xx are all huge winning hands for me, and i mean i run like 25/12/3 so im hardly some kinda spewey preflop maniac. take a look in the low content thread from a post i made earlier today with a similar raggy QQxx hand so see how valuable these hands are.

and since when did actually hitting the flop become a pre requisite to winning the hand?? (see the hand below it in low content where i successfully repped a scare card on the turn)

Re: 200plo: I got really confused here
 

I'm probably in the minority but I limp this preflop. Big pair hands play better with more implied odds and we're not really in position.

Postflop, I probably call the turn and then check behind the river. He's going to have air a decent amount, but he'll still have AAA more often than a hand he can call with here.

Re: 200plo: I got really confused here
 

yeah even though i know the results i still was going to say check behind the river.

Re: 200plo: I got really confused here
 

I think a check behind on the river is fine. I'm always looking for value like this, but when his range on this turn is either a draw or AAxx then whats going to call a valuebet? The straight is going to raise and AAxx is going to call, and a busted draw is going to fold.


BTW I hope you called just so we can see what he had.

Re: 200plo: I got really confused here
 

I call, and make a note

Re: 200plo: I got really confused here
 

as i said earlier... this is clearly aces played rather baddly

Re: 200plo: I got really confused here
 

I insta-pot this turn. If somebody is bad enough to 3bet aces and then check on that drawy of a flop, then gh sir, take my money.

Re: 200plo: I got really confused here
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think a check behind on the river is fine. I'm always looking for value like this, but when his range on this turn is either a draw or AAxx then whats going to call a valuebet?

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2 pair is definitely in his range and probably not folding, he has played his hand very consistently with AJ even though you have two jacks.

Re: 200plo: I got really confused here
 

RT,

What sort of two pair hands take this line of repoppping OOP, CHECKING the A hi flop then LEADING the turn? Any AJxx hand would most likely lead the flop no? The fact that OP has JJxx in hand makes it much more thin of a vbet.

But even if he does have AJxx, I think that might be the very bottom part of his range that check/calls a valuebet. And imo its pretty unlikely given the line and our hand.

Re: 200plo: I got really confused here
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think a check behind on the river is fine. I'm always looking for value like this, but when his range on this turn is either a draw or AAxx then whats going to call a valuebet? The straight is going to raise and AAxx is going to call, and a busted draw is going to fold.


BTW I hope you called just so we can see what he had.

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course I called! It was a miniraise FFS God damn it SI¤YJ¤236363H! He had 899T with spades. And for some reason, I like the way he played it, although I would usually bet the flop in his shoes. But I really love his play on the river.

Re: 200plo: I got really confused here
 

Not betting the flop there is pretty bad. If you bet 2/3 pot on the A-hi board after reraising PF, you get a fold about 80-90% of the time. If I'm villain, I bet $22 on the flop, $44 on any blank turn, and then shove any non-heart river.