It starts in my toes, and I cringle my nose, and smack down the hos
 

$15-$30 Bellagio

Villian is a mid-thirites asian semi-regular. She plays ok break-even poker which basically means she doesnt make huge mistakes but is too stupid to take advantage of any marginal spots or do any short of advanced hand reading. Maybe she has noticed I don't play every hand but maybe not.

She raises in EP, I 3 bone next in with 10 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]10 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], folds around

Flop is 9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

She checks, I bet, she check raises, I call

turn is A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

She bets, I insta-raise

Re: It starts in my toes, and I cringle my nose, and smack down the ho
 

Are you planning to check the river if she calls and checks?

Call if she calls and donks?

I assume you are folding to a 3b....

Re: It starts in my toes, and I cringle my nose, and smack down the ho
 

That is the last $$$$$$ I plan on putting in the pot absent a river 10.

Re: It starts in my toes, and I cringle my nose, and smack down the ho
 

I think your hand is to strong for this. You're basically trying to bluff out JJ? Id just call and bet most rivers when checked to.

Re: It starts in my toes, and I cringle my nose, and smack down the ho
 

I am trying to bluff out JJ QQ or KK. What would you do if she bets the river? Fold. If you say call down, why not just raise now and gain a little fold equity.

Re: It starts in my toes, and I cringle my nose, and smack down the ho
 

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I think your hand is to strong for this. You're basically trying to bluff out JJ?

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I agree with this. If she has QQ-AA, then she was being tricky PF, which I think will encourage her to call down.

Re: It starts in my toes, and I cringle my nose, and smack down the ho
 

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Id just call and bet most rivers when checked to.

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I don't think I'd bet the river if checked to. This seems like the kind of player that will check-call with QQ or KK on the river. The only worse hand that she might have that would pay off on the river is 77 (since 88 and 99 both made a set).

If we were going to bet a blank river when checked to, then I agree that we might as well raise the turn and get more fold equity. A big part of why I'd just call is that we will often get a free showdown.

Re: It starts in my toes, and I cringle my nose, and smack down the hos
 

i like it. i mean i think the real question is what do you do when you turn a blank and she bets into you?

you effectively have 77 here since she raised from EP but didn't cap (meaning imo QQ/JJ/99/88/maybe 77/22 if she is retarded...but if she is retarded you're seeing a showdown).

that is more interesting given your flop/turn play.

have you seen her bet/fold any street? if you've seen her do tons of horrible calling (as BE players can do) then you shouldn't even bother with the turn raise and just let it go.

if you think she can lay a decent hand down then definitely i like it.

Barron

Re: It starts in my toes, and I cringle my nose, and smack down the ho
 

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I think your hand is too strong for this. You're basically trying to bluff out JJ? Id just call and bet most rivers when checked to.

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Stupid typos [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

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Id just call and bet most rivers when checked to.

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I don't think I'd bet the river if checked to. This seems like the kind of player that will check-call with QQ or KK on the river.

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I agree with this, I just dont think she has these hands too often.

Re: It starts in my toes, and I cringle my nose, and smack down the ho
 

I've done this a lot. In fact I think I posted a hand similar to this in last month's NC thread... but I was out of position. I 3-bet TT and a tight guy cold-called. I bet the flop of rags and he raised, and I called. The turn was an A and I checkraised, and he folded KK face up.

I think people tend to fold JJ/QQ/KK really often in these spots. The A won't scare them away from betting, but once they're raised, they're convinced they're no good. If you're good at hand reading (and in my hand it didn't take Antonio Esfandiari to realize he didn't have AK/AQ) then you can find these spots to take pots away.

Re: It starts in my toes, and I cringle my nose, and smack down the ho
 

i personally don't like it... you're investing 2bb's in a bluff when folding would definately be better.... if it was close to a call, i wouldn't mind raising but that would depend on how loose her raising standards are from ep... like if she would raise something like A9 or 55....

i am assuming a range of AT+/77+

Re: It starts in my toes, and I cringle my nose, and smack down the ho
 

Don't be afraid to turn a made hand into a bluff. I think this should work often enough that it shows a nice profit. Not thinking about taking strange lines is a leak in my thought process, but it doesn't affect my hourly much, because my typical opponents are so bad that they'll call too often.

I like the part in theory of poker where david writes that everytime you consider a certain line, you should at least briefly think about what the result of a different line would be. All too often, I just utterly disregard taking certain kinds of lines, which is usually appropriate, but I think it limits my depth of thinking about poker. So in other words, blahblahchowmeow poker is usually right in soft games, but letting your thinking get sloppy is a poor way to improve your overall game and eventually move up.

You have to consider your table image, and the opponent. If the opponent is capable of folding then this is a great spot for your hand, because she should very rarely have an ace, and you are representing one perfectly.

This should even work a decent amount of the time vs. strong players, because they might think "well he obv has at least a calling hand, and now he is raising? That can't be a bluff!"

IMO, this makes value betting against strong players too much a very unattractive proposition at times, because you can get into tough spots against them. It's really quite a nightmare to sit there on the turn OOP against someone who will FSDR you a decent amount of the time.

So yeah, put her in a tough spot. If you get called, tabled your hand when she checks the river. The other players will think you are dangerous and will not want to mess around with you. This can be a recipe for getting a ton of free showdowns, free cards, and loose calls. Profit!

Re: It starts in my toes, and I cringle my nose, and smack down the ho
 

Not sure I love it, but it's great if/when it works.

Would she have C/R'd you with just an overcard hand like a big Ace? I assume not, and that the turn raise is intended to push her off KK-TT?

So long as you're prepared to fold to a raise and not put in another bet after this ...

Re: It starts in my toes, and I cringle my nose, and smack down the ho
 

I like it, I'll have to add this play to my repertoire.

Re: It starts in my toes, and I cringle my nose, and smack down the ho
 

Usually I post hands where I [censored]-up, but here I think I played this one supaprofessionally. I think the key to this hand is thinking about hand ranges. Thinking about it, I am behind almost every hand she could possible have. 88-KK, or AK AQ. It is unlikely that she is holding a hand like A8 or A9 in early position and I think it is unlikely that she has AK or AQ b/c she c/r the flop. Thus, maybe if I had thought about this on the flop I would have folded then. Anyway, she thought for a second and folded QQ.

Re: It starts in my toes, and I cringle my nose, and smack down the ho
 

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blahblahchowmeow poker

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I would very much like to see this become official terminology.

Re: It starts in my toes, and I cringle my nose, and smack down the ho
 

She showed you the Queens? Nice.