X-Post: Greenspan supports Gold Standard on Fox Business
 

Got this from TOAFK in Politards:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caIgP3Mnb6g
(terrible video, but if you turn up the volume it's ok)

He's gone back to his roots:

Gold and Economic Freedom, Alan Greenspan.

He finally sounds like Ron Paul and an Austrian again. Too bad it took decades. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: X-Post: Greenspan supports Gold Standard on Fox Business
 

A transcript, by the way:

Host: So then why do we need a central bank?

AG: Well, the question is a very interesting one. We have at this particular stage a fiat money which is essentially money printed by a government and it's usually the central bank which is authorized to do so. Some mechanism has got to be in place that restricts the amount of money which is produced, either a gold standard or currency board or something of that nature, because unless you do that all of history suggests that inflation will take hold with very delterious effects on economic activity.

Later, after some yakking about Ayn Rand:

AG: . . . there are numbers of us, myself included, who strongly believe that we did very well in the 1870 to 1914 period with an international gold standard.

Re: X-Post: Greenspan supports Gold Standard on Fox Business
 

[ QUOTE ]
A transcript, by the way:

Host: So then why do we need a central bank?

AG: Well, the question is a very interesting one. We have at this particular stage a fiat money which is essentially money printed by a government and it's usually the central bank which is authorized to do so. Some mechanism has got to be in place that restricts the amount of money which is produced, either a gold standard or currency board or something of that nature, because unless you do that all of history suggests that inflation will take hold with very delterious effects on economic activity.

Later, after some yakking about Ayn Rand:

AG: . . . there are numbers of us, myself included, who strongly believe that we did very well in the 1870 to 1914 period with an international gold standard.

[/ QUOTE ]

His first answer is just answering why we need a central bank... not whether it is good or bad.

His second quote just talks about how the gold standard performed until 1914... which says nothing about how it performed/would have performed fromthen on.

I haven't watched the clips but if you misunderstood these statements it's likely you misunderstood the whole video as well.

Re: X-Post: Greenspan supports Gold Standard on Fox Business
 

lol @ Boro

Re: X-Post: Greenspan supports Gold Standard on Fox Business
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
A transcript, by the way:

Host: So then why do we need a central bank?

AG: Well, the question is a very interesting one. We have at this particular stage a fiat money which is essentially money printed by a government and it's usually the central bank which is authorized to do so. Some mechanism has got to be in place that restricts the amount of money which is produced, either a gold standard or currency board or something of that nature, because unless you do that all of history suggests that inflation will take hold with very delterious effects on economic activity.

Later, after some yakking about Ayn Rand:

AG: . . . there are numbers of us, myself included, who strongly believe that we did very well in the 1870 to 1914 period with an international gold standard.

[/ QUOTE ]

His first answer is just answering why we need a central bank... not whether it is good or bad.

His second quote just talks about how the gold standard performed until 1914... which says nothing about how it performed/would have performed fromthen on.

I haven't watched the clips but if you misunderstood these statements it's likely you misunderstood the whole video as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're the one misunderstanding. He says you need EITHER a gold standard OR a currency board or "something of that nature" to check the printing of fiat money (the latter won't actually work at all, but that's neither here nor there), and then goes on to say that the country did quite well under the gold standard for decades. It was oblique, but that's definitely support for a gold standard. It isn't support for a gold standard OVER of a central bank/currency board, but it is definitely support for a gold standard as a POSSIBLE alternative, should society decide to abolish the central bank. He touches on that tangentially during the babbling about Ayn Rand and democracy, but it wasn't particularly clear, which is why I didn't bother to transcribe it. You'll have to watch the whole video to judge for yourself.

Re: X-Post: Greenspan supports Gold Standard on Fox Business
 

You're definitely not understanding his quote and it's actually hilarious that you seem to be trying really hard to do so.

Let me simplify:

(1)

Q: Why do you play poker

A: To make money

Now, let's simplify it a little less with another example:

(2)

Q: Why do you play poker?

A: In order for one to make money he must either get paid to do a job, be a salesman, or play poker (the unspoken ending to this is "I chose to play poker").

DUCY? Gold Standard and currency board are just options of things necessary to control the inflation issues inherent to a system where the government prints money.

Now, substituting:

(1)

Q: Why do we need a central bank?

A: Because the gov't prints the money which leads to blah blah blah

(2)

Q: Why do we need central bank?

A: To control the inherent blah blah of a system where the gov't prints money we need something like a currency board or a gold standard (the unspoken end of this sentence is "we chose a central bank")

Now, I must be really bored at work to have typed all this out. I think it's also because I found it funny.

Re: X-Post: Greenspan supports Gold Standard on Fox Business
 

Sorry, I had that typed up for a really long time and never clicked submit because I actually had to do something at work.

[ QUOTE ]
It was oblique, but that's definitely support for a gold standard

[/ QUOTE ]

No.

How about this?

Q: Why do we need planes?

A: Well we need a mode of transportation for goods and services therefore we need something like wagons or trains or planes.

... There are a number of us, myself included, who thing wagons served this purpose very well in the 17th century.

This does not imply that wagons > trains and planes.

Re: X-Post: Greenspan supports Gold Standard on Fox Business
 

[ QUOTE ]
blah blah blah

This does not imply that wagons > trains and planes.

[/ QUOTE ]

Which was never claimed. And explicitly NOT claimed. Do you see why?

Talk about hilariously struggling to understand something simple.

Unreal.

Q: Why do we need a central bank?

A: Well, you need either a gold standar OR a currency board OR something of that nature to constrain government from over-inflating a fiat money supply. Also, an international gold standard worked very well in the past.

I.e. he clearly says you need either something like a central bank or a gold standard, and clearly says that the gold standard worked fine. Like I said, I never said that he supported the gold standard INSTEAD of, or OVER a central bank.

You are really reaching.

Re: X-Post: Greenspan supports Gold Standard on Fox Business
 

Sorry that should not have been a > sign. too late to edit

=

Re: X-Post: Greenspan supports Gold Standard on Fox Business
 

[ QUOTE ]
A transcript, by the way:

Host: So then why do we need a central bank?

AG: Well, the question is a very interesting one. We have at this particular stage a fiat money which is essentially money printed by a government and it's usually the central bank which is authorized to do so. Some mechanism has got to be in place that restricts the amount of money which is produced, either a gold standard or currency board or something of that nature, because unless you do that all of history suggests that inflation will take hold with very delterious effects on economic activity.

Later, after some yakking about Ayn Rand:

AG: . . . there are numbers of us, myself included, who strongly believe that we did very well in the 1870 to 1914 period with an international gold standard.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nice quote! Greenspan is now working for Bill Gross who has a number of commodity indexed funds he had been promoting. I think a bet on inflation is a good one. There will never be a gold standard and a monetary policy board will always sucuumb to the pressures created by credit squeezes. Milton Friedman had it right, monetary growth should be stable, low and predictable without any attempts to fine tune the economy. He is considered old fashioned. Do you see why?

Re: X-Post: Greenspan supports Gold Standard on Fox Business
 

[ QUOTE ]
Milton Friedman had it right, monetary growth should be stable, low and predictable without any attempts to fine tune the economy.

[/ QUOTE ]

Even Milton Friedman eventually recanted and admitted that a gold standard would have been better than his productivity-indexed inflationary policy, because, he acknowledged, government just cannot constrain itself from printing money.

Re: X-Post: Greenspan supports Gold Standard on Fox Business
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
blah blah blah

This does not imply that wagons > trains and planes.

[/ QUOTE ]

Which was never claimed. And explicitly NOT claimed. Do you see why?

Talk about hilariously struggling to understand something simple.

Unreal.

Q: Why do we need a central bank?

A: Well, you need either a gold standar OR a currency board OR something of that nature to constrain government from over-inflating a fiat money supply. Also, an international gold standard worked very well in the past.

I.e. he clearly says you need either something like a central bank or a gold standard, and clearly says that the gold standard worked fine. Like I said, I never said that he supported the gold standard INSTEAD of, or OVER a central bank.

You are really reaching.

[/ QUOTE ]

the title of your post, and the content, imply, at least to me, that greenspan supports a gold standard above and beyond all other options.

when you read the text, though, it is clear that he is answering the "why do we need a central bank question" with "we need something to contain inflation, i.e. the central bank. OR we would need something like a gold standard ..."

the best thing you linked though was a 40 year old paper he wrote bashing statists and their love of fiat money. i don't think the emphases were his but it is certainly a worthwhile read to see how he used to think.

it should be noted though that i believe his views have changed hugely since then and he no longer thinks a pure gold standard is the way to go. i'll look around for his papers that i've seen that convey that thought.

good links though.

Barron

Re: X-Post: Greenspan supports Gold Standard on Fox Business
 

[ QUOTE ]
lol @ Boro

[/ QUOTE ]

useless comments like this is a good way to get banned in this forum

Re: X-Post: Greenspan supports Gold Standard on Fox Business
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
lol @ Boro

[/ QUOTE ]

useless comments like this is a good way to get banned in this forum

[/ QUOTE ]

It's ok. I lolled at him in Politards. It's just tit-for-tat.

Re: X-Post: Greenspan supports Gold Standard on Fox Business
 

[ QUOTE ]
the title of your post, and the content, imply, at least to me, that greenspan supports a gold standard above and beyond all other options.

[/ QUOTE ]

Until you read the several posts by me in the thread explaining *exactly* what was meant. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: X-Post: Greenspan supports Gold Standard on Fox Business
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
the title of your post, and the content, imply, at least to me, that greenspan supports a gold standard above and beyond all other options.

[/ QUOTE ]

Until you read the several posts by me in the thread explaining *exactly* what was meant. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

right, which is why i went on with that knowledge in place in my post. in fact the very phrase you quoted implies that it isn't what you meant.

Barron

Re: X-Post: Greenspan supports Gold Standard on Fox Business
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
lol @ Boro

[/ QUOTE ]

useless comments like this is a good way to get banned in this forum

[/ QUOTE ]

It's ok. I lolled at him in Politards. It's just tit-for-tat.

[/ QUOTE ]

yea but it still doesn't add any value...like the post i'm typing now...or the one i quoted etc. etc.

i'd like to think that overall ahnuld & evan have done a great job keeping BFI fairly high content/noise ratio. the "lol" posts don't add much so even tit for tats in other forums should probably be kept there.

though i do understand your point and it is well taken...

and obviously this is tounge in cheek since i'm being a hyporcite by typing this long contentfree post expounding upon the importance of content lol.

Barron

Re: X-Post: Greenspan supports Gold Standard on Fox Business
 

Evan hasnt posted on 2+2 is 6 weeks. Last I heard he was moving to the west coast but that was a while ago.

Back to business. Borodog, any idea how much gold would be required to hold if they were to revert back to the last used rate taking inflation into account? Like how many tons that would require? Is there enough gold on earth?

Re: X-Post: Greenspan supports Gold Standard on Fox Business
 

im implying supply side growth has allowed us to print more money without huge levels of inflation so far, and thats ok.

Re: X-Post: Greenspan supports Gold Standard on Fox Business
 

boro, you're an idiot. How can anyone possibly contrue those comments that Greenspan supports the gold standard?

Read Age of Turbulence.

Re: X-Post: Greenspan supports Gold Standard on Fox Business
 

guys stop trolling boro

Re: X-Post: Greenspan supports Gold Standard on Fox Business
 

[ QUOTE ]
guys stop trolling boro

[/ QUOTE ]

i take him seriously. and i suck at the interwebz as demonstrated time and time again.

Barron

Re: X-Post: Greenspan supports Gold Standard on Fox Business
 

[ QUOTE ]
guys stop trolling boro

[/ QUOTE ]

As soon as he stops trolling Greenspan.

Re: X-Post: Greenspan supports Gold Standard on Fox Business
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
guys stop trolling boro

[/ QUOTE ]

As soon as he stops trolling Greenspan.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol

Re: X-Post: Greenspan supports Gold Standard on Fox Business
 

[ QUOTE ]
Back to business. Borodog, any idea how much gold would be required to hold if they were to revert back to the last used rate taking inflation into account? Like how many tons that would require? Is there enough gold on earth?


[/ QUOTE ]

Not as much as you think since if this were to happen the price of gold would probably become insanely high.

I think a more plausable address of the fiat currency problem would be for people to hold gold on deposit and use a bank card (gold card?) to make a purchase in 'gold grammes' instead of fiat currency. Most countries have made their own bank's printed money legal tender however, so this might just be an option if both trading parties were to agree on gold grammes as suitable for payment. A steady increase in the use of this method might eventually replace the use of the current batch of fiat currencies.

Some companies such as GoldMoney are already working on this, and it would obviously be easier (and cheaper) settle payments overseas.

Gold will become the new global currency of the NWO [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: X-Post: Greenspan supports Gold Standard on Fox Business
 

In the other thread I said I think gold = DOW = 8000 is not implausible.

Gold reached $800/oz at the end of the 70s. Even accepting government inflation numbers, inflation adjusted that's like $2500/oz now. We've got another 200% rise in gold to hit that historical mark. And given that I think inflation has been systematically under measured for getting close to 20 years now, that could be maybe more like $3-$4k.

Gold was basically remonetizing at the end of 1979/beginning of 1980, until gold dumping by central banks and the IMF broke the price of gold. I doubt if CB & IMF hold enough gold to do that again. They've been periodically dumping gold for 40+ years (first began in the early 70s, actually).

In fact the fraction of the world gold stock in private hands is at least 82%, and may be as high as 91%. It was less than 50% as of 1966.

If central banks and the IMF attempt to dump gold again, I'm buying more, not less.

Some back of the envelope calculations show that M2/US fraction of the gold stock is roughly $5k-$6k per oz. However, I just assumed that the US holds 1/4 of the world gold stock, since I don't know the actual fraction.

In reality of course, since gold would become so valuable under such a scenario, silver would almost certainly also remonetize for small purchases, and that would have a significant effect.

Re: X-Post: Greenspan supports Gold Standard on Fox Business
 

just for the record I gave salazar a one day ban because of his trolling of Borodog + his lack of respect for this forum which was made apparent to me by the PM I just received.

"2) When you use this forum, you are expected to be civil, courteous and respectful of other members."