I think I\'m only dealt JJ
 

The game is insanely good. One of the best I've seen in a long time. All the decents are out of town (I'm looking at you LA/Australia in one day sir)

There is a man who is a psycho. He plays every Sunday and raises 8/10 hands, the other 2 he randomly limps or is in the blinds. So far he has 4-bet A3o pf, raised the 93o utg and must've gone to church because he is up around three racks.
His turn aggression is huge and frequently raises with 1p/2p/semi bluffs/outright bluffs. Ex: he raised pf I 3-bet 77 he c/raised me on a K834ds board and my hand was good when he barreled a 2 on the river and exposed 79o. But he will also have the goods as its tough to put him on a hand which is what he loves.

The game has devolved into 9 players vs. him.

He raises utg, a decent player but who admits to playing with scared money (he is a 10/20 player taking a shot) 3-bets otb, I cap J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] in the sb and they both call.

Flop: 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
I bet and they both call.

Turn 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
I bet, psycho raises, decent player instantly splashes 16 chips into the pot. And I consult 2p2.

If I do call what are my plans for a blank river? a spade? or overs?

Re: I think I\'m only dealt JJ
 

I'm confused what decent players action was on the turn? raise or call?

Re: I think I\'m only dealt JJ
 

i think the "decent player" has 77.

question what do you estimate psycho's range here to be? because a raise on an all rag, connected board is somewhat different from a bluffraise on a K-high board.

Re: I think I\'m only dealt JJ
 

Sorry for the confusion, decent player calls 2 bets on the turn.

Kit, his range is literally anything and more if he can detect weakness. He is liable to have a 3 as well as overs, flush draw, one pair, 2 pair.

Re: I think I\'m only dealt JJ
 

Fold. Realistically, decent player could hold qq/kk here or a-x big suited, but I really don't like being oop and having to call 1-2 more bets down the road against a pyscho on a 4 card straight board. I doubt you are ahead much in this situation... it's sorta 50/50.

Edit: tired from playing all night, so let me add. You might actually call this turn raise and see what happens at river. If psycho bets, decent player calls, I think it's safe to muck your hand there and not shoot for overcall.


On a side note: I think this man's psycho church going cousin paid me and a friend a visit in Norcal last night as well...

Re: I think I\'m only dealt JJ
 

Call a bet and I call 1 bet on all rivers.

Re: I think I\'m only dealt JJ
 

What about a threebet? "Decent player with scared money" seems like the type to do it against.

Re: I think I\'m only dealt JJ
 

As phsyco myself i check the turn against someone with 169 combinations for a range but as played you have to call the raise and most like likely call one bet on the river but not 2.

Re: I think I\'m only dealt JJ
 

Yea id call down. I think button has KJs AJs KQs ATs AKs AQs a ton.

Re: I think I\'m only dealt JJ
 

Your turn decision is read-dependent on the decent player. If he 3bet PF, what's his range? Would he 3bet to isolate with AK,AQ,AJ-A9? Would he three bet any pairs small enough to hit the flop; probably not? From your description, it smells like AsKs or AsQs and he's going nowhere until he sees that river card, perhaps 10-10,9-9,88. You 3betting turn doesn't accomplish much unless he'd lay down those pairs.
As for psycho, lol, I'd like to call him down if heads up. Don't see how an overcall is like ever successful.

Re: I think I\'m only dealt JJ
 

[ QUOTE ]
Yea id call down. I think button has KJs AJs KQs ATs AKs AQs a ton.

[/ QUOTE ]

good call. i missed that FD

i call down. i'm not worried about overcalling until the river is dealt.

Re: I think I\'m only dealt JJ
 

So I called the turn.

The river was Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
I checked, utg bet and kid called

Re: I think I\'m only dealt JJ
 

[ QUOTE ]
So I called the turn.

The river was Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
I checked, utg bet and kid called

[/ QUOTE ]

Well now kid probably has TT. UTG has some random stuff. You're def good enough times to overcall.

Re: I think I\'m only dealt JJ
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So I called the turn.

The river was Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
I checked, utg bet and kid called

[/ QUOTE ]

Well now kid probably has TT. UTG has some random stuff. You're def good enough times to overcall.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: I think I\'m only dealt JJ
 

[ QUOTE ]
What about a threebet? "Decent player with scared money" seems like the type to do it against.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually in my experience, when a player like this gets this far with a hand that beats us, he's going to grit his teeth and call down. If he's decent, then he knows that the presence of the psycho means that OP could be making some kind of squeeze play.

I would just call down and only fold if the river goes bet-raise (especially if the river is a spade).

Re: I think I\'m only dealt JJ
 

nevermind. i think you should fold.

Re: I think I\'m only dealt JJ
 

Holy balls never fold this ever. Turn 3 bet is appealing.

-DeathDonkey

Re: I think I\'m only dealt JJ
 

It would be heroic if you raised the river, OTG called w/junk and decent folded his AQ.
However I'm guessing you overcalled, and some sick hand took it down.
So wha' 'appened???

Re: I think I\'m only dealt JJ
 

I like the idea of a turn 3-bet and it did cross my mind but I wasn't comfortable folding to utg's 4 bet and if button had spades he can't go anywhere and I'm in the same spot.

I ended up making a results oriented good fold on the river convinced on the turn that button had a spade draw or TT+, when the Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] hit the river and he called I obviously narrowed his hand to TT+ and he called the turn so fast that I was convinced I was beat.

I'm still unsure if this was a good/bad fold.

Utg yelled out "Ace!" and tabled AKo, I nearly knocked my chair over until the button turned over KK.

As always, thanks guys.

Re: I think I\'m only dealt JJ
 

jk--

I don't think you can fold this river. Button's play is too consistent with a draw on the turn. (For the same reason, don't 3-bet; he'll never fold and obviously although you're ahead of a draw your equity isn't enough to 3bet for value vs. their ranges.) Anyway, Button's calling range on the river includes a ton of hands you beat (pocket pairs that are also straight draws are fit his action very well, although other stuff does too), and UTG's betting range does too. If you want to make some sort of read, be my guest, but I don't see how that read can be a combinatorial one.

--Nate

Re: I think I\'m only dealt JJ
 

[ QUOTE ]
I like the idea of a turn 3-bet and it did cross my mind but I wasn't comfortable folding to utg's 4 bet and if button had spades he can't go anywhere and I'm in the same spot.

I ended up making a results oriented good fold on the river convinced on the turn that button had a spade draw or TT+, when the Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] hit the river and he called I obviously narrowed his hand to TT+ and he called the turn so fast that I was convinced I was beat.

I'm still unsure if this was a good/bad fold.

Utg yelled out "Ace!" and tabled AKo, I nearly knocked my chair over until the button turned over KK.

As always, thanks guys.

[/ QUOTE ]

Results oriented fold? You were behind whole way, scared money doesnt insta call turn two bets. Also, at any point you make a move on this pot, all you will do is result in the psycho folding river and scared money calling you. You played it best of your ability, gratz, most of the posts on these forums is of guys like me in middle of a train wreck suicide bombing.

As stated, it looks like a marginal spot calling psychos raise on turn then hoping button folds river. I'm surprised you didn't think twice about folding your hand from the sb pf (which I don't think is a +ev fold in this spot, but I would at least ponder it).

There are times when I thought about mucking JJ on the bb against a tight/scared money player 3 betting early in and both times I made the incorrect call not getting 7.5 to 1 and sucked out.

Re: I think I\'m only dealt JJ
 

[ QUOTE ]

Results oriented fold? You were behind whole way, scared money doesnt insta call turn two bets. Also, at any point you make a move on this pot, all you will do is result in the psycho folding river and scared money calling you. You played it best of your ability, gratz, most of the posts on these forums is of guys like me in middle of a train wreck suicide bombing.

As stated, it looks like a marginal spot calling psychos raise on turn then hoping button folds river. I'm surprised you didn't think twice about folding your hand from the sb pf (which I don't think is a +ev fold in this spot, but I would at least ponder it).

There are times when I thought about mucking JJ on the bb against a tight/scared money player 3 betting early in and both times I made the incorrect call not getting 7.5 to 1 and sucked out.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a results oriented post. The decision was not easy on the turn, and I believe OP made the right play on each street. We're calling the river when a non-[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] undercard to our Jacks hits too.

And you suggest considering folding JJ from the SB PF? Huh?

Re: I think I\'m only dealt JJ
 

JK,

Please describe/name the psycho. Does he also play 10/20?

Re: I think I\'m only dealt JJ
 

[ QUOTE ]
Fold. Realistically, decent player could hold qq/kk here or a-x big suited, but I really don't like being oop and having to call 1-2 more bets down the road against a pyscho on a 4 card straight board. I doubt you are ahead much in this situation... it's sorta 50/50.

Edit: tired from playing all night, so let me add. You might actually call this turn raise and see what happens at river. If psycho bets, decent player calls, I think it's safe to muck your hand there and not shoot for overcall.


On a side note: I think this man's psycho church going cousin paid me and a friend a visit in Norcal last night as well...

[/ QUOTE ]

I originally wrote a long post responding to you jskills, but decided to just requote myself.

Results oriented post eh? I believe I posted that I'd fold/call 50/50 in this spot. And I posted that before the results of the hand/many other posters chimed in.

Next time please scroll up before marking my post as 'results oriented.'

Edit to add: I also praised the op's ability to play the hand so well, and wondered why he was beating himself up when he played a tough spot very well and made a good fold on river when he finally collected all the info. I pointed out some small other decisions that he may/may not take into account next time. Maybe it came across the wrong way, for that, I apologize.

Re: I think I\'m only dealt JJ
 

[ QUOTE ]
JK,

Please describe/name the psycho. Does he also play 10/20?

[/ QUOTE ]

Bernie? If yes, he does play 10/20

Re: I think I\'m only dealt JJ
 

[ QUOTE ]
a decent player but who admits to playing with scared money (he is a 10/20 player taking a shot) 3-bets otb

[/ QUOTE ]

If he's really playing with scared money and is taking a shot, this tends to mean this is a very legitimate raise with a great hand.

b