official end your downswing thread
 

i am currently in a downswing. i understand that i am playing badly and running badly. basically i want it to end (obv); i understand that i am not unique and that errone goes through this. so i am starting this thread for myself and others going through swongs to brainstorm ideas to get through it. i will start:

1. create balance in your life (do something not poker related)
2. move down a level
3. read more and post more

Re: official end your downswing thread
 

just play tighter. analyze every post flop decision - no play should be "automatic".

Re: official end your downswing thread
 

Stop making desperate bluffs (xcept cbets ldo obv imo)
Just give some hands away when OOP
Don't jazillion table. I'm playing 5 tops right now.
Take pride in every decision you make no matter how small the pot. (I don't do this)
Play tighter.
Run good?
Don't press vs maniacs!!! Let them come to you even if they just gave you some sick beat.

Re: official end your downswing thread
 

This one is for tufat:

Have the american dollar stop depreciating.

He told me tonight about how much he lost today without even playing. It was funny IMO

Re: official end your downswing thread
 

At least w/ the dollar depreciating the war doesn't cost as much.

Re: official end your downswing thread
 

Move up, and quit if you don't run well. I'm currently seriously considering this option.

Re: official end your downswing thread
 

I've tried playing like two tables, tanking on almost every postflop decision and doing a full analysis of all possible lines. Basically deconstructing every decision that used to be automatic and try to justify it. (Sorry for slowing down the tables but swongs r 1 thing)

Re: official end your downswing thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
I've tried playing like two tables, tanking on almost every postflop decision and doing a full analysis of all possible lines. Basically deconstructing every decision that used to be automatic and try to justify it. (Sorry for slowing down the tables but swongs r 1 thing)

[/ QUOTE ]

i actually really like this idea. i usually 6 table 200nl, will try this obv.

Re: official end your downswing thread
 

I'm going to stop drinking when I play. If that's not enough I'll have to stop toking as well.

Re: official end your downswing thread
 

i find 2-3 day breaks really help, and if im not playing, i watch some cr videos and post.

if u still need a fix, mix it up with some low $ STTs, playing when ur feeling negative is so -ev.

Re: official end your downswing thread
 

I'm not sure my tactic of playing omaha instead is a good idea.

Re: official end your downswing thread
 

Just came out of a downswing in October...both running bad and playing bad. I've been reading tons of posts and analyzing every +EV line for playing each hand. Last night I played some of the best poker I've ever played...thanks 2+2!!! (insert ridiculous smile w/ thumbs up here).

Re: official end your downswing thread
 

Staying away from the tables & away from poker content for a period of time ... letting my conscious knowledge transform into subconscious knowledge to allow more room to consciously learn things

Re: official end your downswing thread
 

stop watching sammy farha play poker.

Re: official end your downswing thread
 

start open pushing sooted cards

Re: official end your downswing thread
 

Playing your A game instead of trying to analyze every flop, hand, player, decision, avatar, timing tell, image, and save that [censored] for when you are finished your session. Make the best decision in the moment and remember that you got yourself to this level and variance has always affected you.

Re: official end your downswing thread
 

Move down 2 levels, and play a style different than your usual.

Re: official end your downswing thread
 

I would say a break is by far the best thing to do, take some days of. Then come back with full confidence and crush. Oh, and don't feel sorry for yourself and blame it all on beats/coolers/running bad, if it's a downswing worth mentioning I'm almost possitive that you haven't played good all time. I have had severeal 15BI downswings and a 45k hand BE stretch, and none of these have been only due to running bad (ldo), instead I have tilted like [censored]. Like sbrugby would say, take responsibility for your results. Find the leak/leaks and eliminate it/them.

Hope it turns around, gl.

Re: official end your downswing thread
 

I'm in the middle of the sickest downswing in my 2 years playing and was wondering the same so yesterday I just decided to take the day off from poker completely and get other things in order. I did things like clean a little around the house, spent time with friends and just generally avoided doing anything poker related for just one day. I feel that even just that one day really helped restore some of my sanity and clear my head so that I can focus on playing good again today.

In the days prior I found myself making a few bad calls, made one really bad preflop play and a few tilt induced raises and 3bets. When you find yourself doing these things as a result of being stuck, it is definitely time to step away from the computer and reevaluate.

Re: official end your downswing thread
 

move down and nit it up til you get your confidence back.

just wait for that glorious heater

Re: official end your downswing thread
 

hero calls lose money. hero calls lose money. hero calls lose money. hero calls lose money. hero calls lose money. hero calls lose money. hero calls lose money. hero calls lose money. hero calls lose money. hero calls lose money. hero calls lose money. hero calls lose money. hero calls lose money. hero calls lose money. hero calls lose money. hero calls lose money. hero calls lose money. hero calls lose money. hero calls lose money. hero calls lose money.

Re: official end your downswing thread
 

- stop relying too much on stats, like "this guy folds 70% to river bets, ez 3rd barrel".
- in general bluff less.
- take more time before making big decisions.
- play less tables.
- practice patience.
- find a g00t coach.

that's all.

Re: official end your downswing thread
 

ah, and stop this [censored] BE stretch...

http://img77.imageshack.us/img77/2336/nl200lm2.jpg

Re: official end your downswing thread
 

analyze your play by reviewing EVERY session in PT

Re: official end your downswing thread
 

xanta has a good one, this is my personal recipe to end downswings. 1-2 tables, while quite a bit slower paced, is also quite a bit more profitable:

1) it forces way better game selection: the fact that you're watching most of the hands play out gives you a much more accurate feel for the table that you don't have when 4-6 tabling, leading to your righteous departure from tables that have gone all 12/4/800 on you.
2) along with that, you get way better reads on players and their leaks by playing along in hands you are not involved in. any experienced player will hammer it into you that hud stats are overshadowed hugely by the +EV of knowing what a player's line means, how he plays draws, etc etc. this is a huuuuuuge moneymaker, as it leads to vast improvements in your hand reading of opponents, knowledge of how to exploit those leaks you noticed earlier, and the last added bonus of being able to RUN OVER live games once your card and player reading gets good.

Re: official end your downswing thread
 

play happy. ie. be happy and carefree when you play. helps me immensely.

Re: official end your downswing thread
 

OK, here's the real deal. I wish I could say this was mine, but this is all gleaned from 2+2.

First, and I think the real key to understanding the rest, is to understand the basic fact that poker is a game of decisions. You would like for the flush to make, to flop a set, for villain to check behind, etc. but these are things over which you have no control. You do have control over your decisions. Make more good ones than bad ones.

A lot of online players (at least 2+2 posters) are perfectionists. They want to make all their decisions correct and really get down on themselves when they make really bad (dumb, stupid) decisions. Sometimes it can be masochistic. You seem to enjoy screwing up so you can proceed to whip yourself for being such an idiot. And of course many 2=2'ers then proceed to tilt, or at least get a little tilty.

One key here is to start giving yourself a break, understanding that being a perfectionist only sets yourself up for failure, perhaps read a book or two on the subject, and perhaps talk to a buddy about this.

Lastly, you can not properly make good decisions on a consistent basis unless you are mentally sound, got your head screwed on correctly, etc. You need to have your life in order. You know, squared away. Financially stable, no problems with your significant other, no significant personal problems at all. There are poker players that can put there personal lives in a box, close the lid, then proceed to play and make decisions with no emotion. I think these people have problems in their personal lives, problems dealing with people. So, thats where you need to start. Get your head straight. I think that it's helpful to get a life outside of poker. If you need to have some personal counseling then I'd suggest doing that before getting a poker coach.

Re: official end your downswing thread
 

I can't remember where I heard this, but...try and remember that you aren't playing badly or running badly but that you PLAYED poorly or ran bad in the past.

The past does not determine the future in poker. One thing that really helps me play better is when I stop feeling sorry for myself.

Re: official end your downswing thread
 

Everytime i hit a break even or losing stretch I drop down to 3 tables, and along with forcing myself to focus on hands i'm not involved in, I sit there and vocalize my thoughts on each hand as it happens. I'll be assigning hand ranges out loud based on past action, justifying my action on the street, and expressing a game plan for current and future streets based on villains reaction and how they should be interpreted. Painfully maximize EV every step of the way and stop testicular atrophy (ie. fear) or karmic balance (ie. suckouts/luck) from clouding judgment. Essentially - force your A game so factors such as your confidence, dwindling bankroll, outstanding bills, constipation, sexual frustration ie. anything not part of the hand in front of you becomes irrelevant.

Re: official end your downswing thread
 

I just came out of the biggest downsing in my life, when I think how I got myself in the situation I get sooo pissed at myself. I was winning pretty good at 2/4 and 3/6 NL, and was pretty overrolled for both levels, when I one night decided to try some Omaha 2/4 while drunk.
After I lost around 3K in 1 hour i went to the club. The next day i started playing right away with the intention of winning back everything I lost, and ended up even that session.
The next 3 days I played NL HU and was running sickning bad, and due to that I started tilting like crazy. BAM! half my BR was gone.
I moved down to 1/2 and was hoping that I would win everything back pretty qucik by playing HU, but due to tilt and some sick coolers I lost A LOT again.
This was my first losing month in my 2 years of playing, and when the month(august) was over I was sooo depressed, and had lost my confidence totally.

Now I have learned a lot from it, and promiced myself that I will NEVER get into that situation again.
Here are some examples of what I will do next time when I start running bad:

- Take 2-3 days off from poker totally. The 4th day start watching some CR videos to get the poker mood back.

- If you are playing HU, be VERY honest to yourself when you are starting to Tilt, myself and many friends have lost 7-10 BI in a couple of hours to fishes who they normally wouldnt lose to, just because they started to tilt.
I think that when you have lost 2-3 BI you should quit. It is going to be very hard to keep playing after you lost 3 BI, mainly because you want to win everything back and you become overaggressive.

- Start working out on a regular basis. I have tried to play all day during periods in my life when I was not working out, and every bad beat pissed me off.
When I started to work out everyday, the bad beats and coolers did not piss me off at all when playing 1-2 hour sessions.
Working out gives you an oppourtunity to clear your head and makes you more relaxed.

- Play shorter sessions. I think 2 hours is optimum. After that I noticed that I lose focus, and if I seen a couple of bad beats within those first 2 hours, it does not really bother me, but after 2-3 hours Ive noticed that I get more and more pissed while playing.

- Like everyone else already said, analyze you session afterwards, and ask yourself:
- Would I play the hand the same way now? If yes, it should not bother you. You have to think longterm.

All this is easier said than done, but I hope writing it down will help me and other 2+2 ers, and please feel free if you want to add anything that i ve missed or you think is wrong.

GL

Re: official end your downswing thread
 

I completely agree with up-grey-de.

I just had a 28 BI downswing, and everything he says is true. Take a few days off, and get on your feet again when you feel like playing again.

Re: official end your downswing thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
Everytime i hit a break even or losing stretch I drop down to 3 tables, and along with forcing myself to focus on hands i'm not involved in, I sit there and vocalize my thoughts on each hand as it happens. I'll be assigning hand ranges out loud based on past action, justifying my action on the street, and expressing a game plan for current and future streets based on villains reaction and how they should be interpreted. Painfully maximize EV every step of the way and stop testicular atrophy (ie. fear) or karmic balance (ie. suckouts/luck) from clouding judgment. Essentially - force your A game so factors such as your confidence, dwindling bankroll, outstanding bills, constipation, sexual frustration ie. anything not part of the hand in front of you becomes irrelevant.

[/ QUOTE ]

Excellent!

Re: official end your downswing thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
This one is for tufat:

Have the american dollar stop depreciating.

He told me tonight about how much he lost today without even playing. It was funny IMO

[/ QUOTE ]

I just had an idea. With the dollar losing it's value y'all with big bankrolls will lose lots of money over time. I'm offering you to keep your $$$ as €€€ in my €-Neteller account. I will of course feel obliged to take a small fee for my services but the proposition should still be +EV for both parts. PM me if interested. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: official end your downswing thread
 

omg... does anyone know longboy207. He just slowrolled me online... thats never happened to me before.

I feel violated.

Re: official end your downswing thread
 

I think the best way to stop a downswing is to forget about how high your bankroll was at its peak before the downswing and start fresh with what you have right now.

Nobody plays well when playing from behind (same with sports btw), but most people play better when they are ahead and in a mindset that they can crush the opposition.

Quick example. You start a new month with a $6k bankroll and run hot for a few days/weeks and bring it up to $10k. That's when a few bad beats occur, you drop $1k and tilt another $1k away. DO NOT FOCUS ON THE $10K YOU HAD BEFORE! As Mike Caro would say, "there's no such thing as coming back to even, you are already even" (or something like that). Therefore, take a break (another great advice) and start over with a fresh mind. "I have an $8k bankroll, let's see how it goes when i play the best i can" (not let's see if i can get it back to $10k today).

Re: official end your downswing thread
 

I'm myself through a downswing right now. I've been the last few days playing only 1 or 2 tables and reconstructing my game from scratch. I think there's a lot you can improve if you take all the time it takes to play only one table and think about the game, the strategy etc ... without any time limitation until you feel confident again in what you are doing.

Re: official end your downswing thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
omg... does anyone know longboy207. He just slowrolled me online... thats never happened to me before.

I feel violated.

[/ QUOTE ]
how do you slowroll online?

Re: official end your downswing thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
omg... does anyone know longboy207. He just slowrolled me online... thats never happened to me before.

I feel violated.

[/ QUOTE ]
how do you slowroll online?

[/ QUOTE ]

Timebank down with the nuts/very good hand (clear winner).

Re: official end your downswing thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think the best way to stop a downswing is to forget about how high your bankroll was at its peak before the downswing and start fresh with what you have right now.


[/ QUOTE ]

This is crazy good advice. I went from having $1400 at my peak down to $650 and it was so depressing. But now I'm trying to forget what I had at my peak and just focus on making good plays and it's working out pretty well. I also remind myself what I started with ($36) and that helps too.

Also, sometimes it's hard to recognize when I'm tilting but I think a telltale sign for me is when I feel like people are playing back at me with garbage and I start to get flustered... for example, when my cbet gets raised 3 times in a row or something (even if it's on 3 different tables against 3 different people). I feel like I need to start making more moves and start 3betting with garbage because I KNOW the person is FOS. Needless to say, that's not good.

Re: official end your downswing thread
 

Btw I completely disagree with the long break advice. Sure, 1 day is ok, but a couple of days... it just makes it worse psychologically, making it harder to return.

Imo the best is to move down like way low, and just dominate the table.

It feels great, replenishes confidence, also helps a bit with the bankroll. Then move back up slowly.

Also, trying a new style (looser, or tighter) helps alot. Its like its a totally new game, and you get to think over most decisions again, and dont do the "automatic mistakes" you have started to do.