6.50 - CL on bubble, push?
 

I know the whole own the bubble thing but should I be doing that with these stacks?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t600 (4 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

SB (t2470)
BB (t3610)
Hero (t4565)
Button (t2855)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
Hero ???

Re: 6.50 - CL on bubble, push?
 

yes. Opponents are rarely calling wide enough to make ATC not a shove. Even with pretty loose ranges it's still ATC shove.

Re: 6.50 - CL on bubble, push?
 

ok, so even with close stacks as long as I have the lead I should be pushing ATC?

Re: 6.50 - CL on bubble, push?
 

Yes.

Re: 6.50 - CL on bubble, push?
 

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think this should be even more reason to shove ATC. Stacks are too close and not short enough to warrant waiting for a hand to bust someone, or waiting for them to bust each other. You can chip up a lot here, because imo in their minds they have enough to fold and wait for a better hand. If you get called, you can still catch.

Re: 6.50 - CL on bubble, push?
 

If opponents are calling all with 12% (44+, A7s+, A9o+, KQs) then its still positive EV to push. (See Calculation ).



[ QUOTE ]
You can chip up a lot here, because imo in their minds they have enough to fold and wait for a better hand. If you get called, you can still catch.

[/ QUOTE ]
And a good point.

--
Qubit

Re: 6.50 - CL on bubble, push?
 

Everybody says to shove ATC but it depends on the table and players at hand. Maybe people SHOULD fold, and if people are respecting the bubble then yes shove them all, but I have run into an incredible number of loose callers here, especially on stars, and it's very bad for you to get called and lose. Even playing a lot of tables it should be very easy to get a read on this based on how the table got to this point and at least how many shoves/wide calls are happening at the table.

Re: 6.50 - CL on bubble, push?
 

I would not shove T3o here but I might be wrong.

ICM nash suggest 87% and T3o is in it. But it also sugest that your opponents don't call with AQ or 99 and you jsut can't expect that against unknown at the 6.5.

I fold.

http://www.holdemresources.net/hr/sngs/i...amp;s8=&s9=

Re: 6.50 - CL on bubble, push?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Everybody says to shove ATC but it depends on the table and players at hand. Maybe people SHOULD fold, and if people are respecting the bubble then yes shove them all, but I have run into an incredible number of loose callers here, especially on stars, and it's very bad for you to get called and lose. Even playing a lot of tables it should be very easy to get a read on this based on how the table got to this point and at least how many shoves/wide calls are happening at the table.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a really good point. I'm not pushing any two in this spot, because they do not only call with 14%. Button and SB have a bit more than 4BB each and they'll call wider than that.

I ran it in Wiz. Its default ranges for "average" players are 18, 25 and 25, which sounds about right to me. It's a clear clear fold.

Put them on 14% and it's still a clear fold. They need to fold just about everything to make this a push. They probably should, but they don't.

Re: 6.50 - CL on bubble, push?
 

that's the easiest fold ever.

Re: 6.50 - CL on bubble, push?
 

I probably shove top 60 there. If they see you pushing ATC, they will call you lighter next time. Could be +ev, but passing up this spot and establish a tighter image should be more +ev, I think. Depends on how good they are.

A guy called me with Q10o when I shoved with my Q8o lately in a similar situation ($16)..I asked him how he could made that brave call, and he answered that he knew he had me, and I gave away chips..The standard thing [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: 6.50 - CL on bubble, push?
 

You need to own the bubble, but you don't need to break it. It's not part of your job description. Rex mentioned that ICM is good to go for 87% and this fall within that, I'm a nit.... at least dropping that by about 10%. Top 65% might be fine here..

Re: 6.50 - CL on bubble, push?
 

lol, just calculate, with which cards guys can call, if you shove here 100%
and then talk about icm [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Re: 6.50 - CL on bubble, push?
 

I'm folding b/c it's a 6.

Re: 6.50 - CL on bubble, push?
 

I would fold, and i push very wide in that situation.

Re: 6.50 - CL on bubble, push?
 

i would fold. I think 10-3 is a bit of a stretch at the 6.50s given these stacks.

Re: 6.50 - CL on bubble, push?
 

6.50, donks, etc...

They aren't folding what they should be, not to mention you occasionally get some random JTs call.

Re: 6.50 - CL on bubble, push?
 

[ QUOTE ]
6.50, donks, etc...
They aren't folding what they should be, not to mention you occasionally get some random JTs call.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe this is a comment, maybe it's a question, as I don't play this buy-in.
I would assume in donkfestvilleland you'd want to play very tight and let the monkeys knock each other off the bed.

Correct?

Re: 6.50 - CL on bubble, push?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
6.50, donks, etc...
They aren't folding what they should be, not to mention you occasionally get some random JTs call.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe this is a comment, maybe it's a question, as I don't play this buy-in.
I would assume in donkfestvilleland you'd want to play very tight and let the monkeys knock each other off the bed.

Correct?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not necessarily. You just have to play a bit tighter in spots like these because ranges will be wider. They still can call super tight in certain spots though.

Re: 6.50 - CL on bubble, push?
 

This is very true. At times you can abuse the players, but you can't take it to extremes like you could against ICM/bubble savy players.

Re: 6.50 - CL on bubble, push?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I would not shove T3o here but I might be wrong.

ICM nash suggest 87% and T3o is in it. But it also sugest that your opponents don't call with AQ or 99 and you jsut can't expect that against unknown at the 6.5.

I fold.

http://www.holdemresources.net/hr/sngs/i...amp;s8=&s9=

[/ QUOTE ]

How does the ICM nash calculator work? If it says you should shove the hand, then isn't it a mistake for your opponent to call?