AK wtf??
 

Villain was 27/19/1.5 over 100 hands fwiw, no history or anything. Anyone play this different?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $4 BB (5 handed) Hand History converter Courtesy of PokerZion.com

SB ($128.80)
BB ($1279.91)
UTG ($321)
MP ($411.70)
Hero ($419.80)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $14</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB calls $10.

Flop: ($30) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $23</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to $46</font>, Hero calls $23.

Turn: ($122) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $85</font>, BB calls $1219.91 (All-In), Hero folds.

Re: AK wtf??
 

I call, you only lose to AJ/22.

Re: AK wtf??
 

fold quick!

Re: AK wtf??
 

[ QUOTE ]
call quick!

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: AK wtf??
 

mini raised flop and crai on turn scream big hand, i dont think he shows up with a bluff here so maybe he's valuebluffing aq, at

but his shoving range also includes a2, a9 aj j9, 22 axc

i think this is a fold

Re: AK wtf??
 

The fact that the J is the flop club card really kills his semibluffing range. I'd muck it.

Re: AK wtf??
 

Looks like an easy fold. A9 seems very likely. Your turnbet is good otherwise.

Re: AK wtf??
 

why are you betting this turn to fold now?

Re: AK wtf??
 

I check turn. He either folds to the bet (we lose value) or he crai (and you dont even know what your going to do).

Re: AK wtf??
 

[ QUOTE ]
I check turn. He either folds to the bet (we lose value) or he crai (and you dont even know what your going to do).

[/ QUOTE ]

results orientated much?

Re: AK wtf??
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I check turn. He either folds to the bet (we lose value) or he crai (and you dont even know what your going to do).

[/ QUOTE ]

results orientated much?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not at all. Just think about it. After someone c/r-es the flop then checks the turn. they either crai or c/f, no?

Re: AK wtf??
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I check turn. He either folds to the bet (we lose value) or he crai (and you dont even know what your going to do).

[/ QUOTE ]

results orientated much?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not at all. Just think about it. After someone c/r-es the flop then checks the turn. they either crai or c/f, no?


[/ QUOTE ]

no

Re: AK wtf??
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I check turn. He either folds to the bet (we lose value) or he crai (and you dont even know what your going to do).

[/ QUOTE ]

results orientated much?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not at all. Just think about it. After someone c/r-es the flop then checks the turn. they either crai or c/f, no?


[/ QUOTE ]

no

[/ QUOTE ]

Really?!?!?! I don't think I have seen someone c/c there often... they usually crai or c/f in my experience...

Re: AK wtf??
 

for what it's worth, my experiences are similar to cbboy's. do people really c/r c/c much at all here? i don't see it

Re: AK wtf??
 

I think betting and checking the turn are actually really close but Id be inclined to bet it. After his raise tho Id fold real quick I think

Re: AK wtf??
 

We are getting almost 2-1 on a call here. Might this be Acxc often enough to be a call? This has to be a good possibility for a call because we have 9 outs against A2 and only 6 against AJ on the river...

Re: AK wtf??
 

[ QUOTE ]
I call, you only lose to AJ/22.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you still feel this way?

Re: AK wtf??
 

[ QUOTE ]
The fact that the J is the flop club card really kills his semibluffing range. I'd muck it.

[/ QUOTE ]

could you explain this?

Re: AK wtf??
 

I can check the turn here and bet full pot on river for value. as played, I'd fold.

Re: AK wtf??
 

If villian is the type to make little c/r bets with any half decent hand, and certainly with tp, then you have to take them to value-town on the turn. Otherwise, if they are half-decent and tricky (despite the gay min-raise) then I'd def check more than bet the turn. As played I guess it's a fold.

Re: AK wtf??
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I check turn. He either folds to the bet (we lose value) or he crai (and you dont even know what your going to do).

[/ QUOTE ]

results orientated much?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not at all. Just think about it. After someone c/r-es the flop then checks the turn. they either crai or c/f, no?

[/ QUOTE ]

This holds true almost always from my experience of MSNL..

Re: AK wtf??
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The fact that the J is the flop club card really kills his semibluffing range. I'd muck it.

[/ QUOTE ]

could you explain this?

[/ QUOTE ]

Pretty simple, QJ, JT, J9, J8, KJcc, all these hands might peel the flop and take a stab on the turn.

I like unarmed's thinking, and having that board makes it easier, I still call though cause I don't see him double c/ring with anything bar 22. Even AJ plays it more straight up.

Re: AK wtf??
 

turn is a check and you call any safe and many unsafe cards. you have position and a hand that has show down value that can't stand a c/r. even if he bets the pot on the river we are getting better odds paying 50% more, in effect letting us show downt he hand for 40$ instead of the big c/r on the turn.

Re: AK wtf??
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The fact that the J is the flop club card really kills his semibluffing range. I'd muck it.

[/ QUOTE ]

could you explain this?

[/ QUOTE ]

Pretty simple, QJ, JT, J9, J8, KJcc, all these hands might peel the flop and take a stab on the turn.

I like unarmed's thinking, and having that board makes it easier, I still call though cause I don't see him double c/ring with anything bar 22. Even AJ plays it more straight up.

[/ QUOTE ]

he didnt peel, he min-raised bit of a difference, i say [censored] it and call because im confused by the whole thing

Re: AK wtf??
 

and fwiw i check the turn too, i'd imagine villains range is pretty polarized.

Re: AK wtf??
 

Turn bet is fine. Due to the flop texture he has a draw rarely, so you're not going to fold a better hand if he shoves. If he has you beat, bet/folding the turn accomplishes the same as chking and calling the river. If you have him beat you get to stack AQ by betting turn. Pot control definitely has its place, just not in this hand.

Re: AK wtf??
 

AQ minraises the flop? it's a wierd line.

Re: AK wtf??
 

unarmed, i dont see how they accomplish the same thing

can you explain a bit further? its early in the morning and i confused =[

Re: AK wtf??
 

Check turn, call river.

Re: AK wtf??
 

wtf ofcourse u check turn

Re: AK wtf??
 

No fking way your hand is good here, this is a super-strong line from a slightly weak postflop player. Instamuck.

Re: AK wtf??
 

[ QUOTE ]
AQ minraises the flop? it's a wierd line.

[/ QUOTE ]

It depends on how big of a fish the guy is. Many ppl are capable of "slowplaying" AQ preflop and then springing a big trap on the flop. Once hero calls they go, uh oh, he might have something, better check this one down.

If this guy was lagtarded I'd happily check the turn and snap call the river, but a flop C/R turn chk chk river bluff is pretty rare. Ppl that spazz c/r bluff the flop like this rarely fire again.

I mean, just generally. against passive players you bet your hand until you're given a clear signal its not good anymore. If he's not bluffing the river or turn often it doesn't matter if his range is polarized. You still make zero off air and lose a one bet to a better hand.

Re: AK wtf??
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I check turn. He either folds to the bet (we lose value) or he crai (and you dont even know what your going to do).

[/ QUOTE ]

results orientated much?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not at all. Just think about it. After someone c/r-es the flop then checks the turn. they either crai or c/f, no?


[/ QUOTE ]

no

[/ QUOTE ]

Really?!?!?! I don't think I have seen someone c/c there often... they usually crai or c/f in my experience...

[/ QUOTE ]
Agreed, this is my experience also. I think we are valuetowning a weaker ace here so rarely. I check turn.

Re: AK wtf??
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think we are valuetowning a weaker ace here so rarely.

[/ QUOTE ]

why? it's not like he made a proper raise on the flop so his range is probably NOT that polarised, why can't he have Ax here?

Re: AK wtf??
 

bc ax doesnt crai on turns unimproved? (improved =he picked up a FD or turned 2pair)

Re: AK wtf??
 

[ QUOTE ]
bc ax doesnt crai on turns unimproved? (improved =he picked up a FD or turned 2pair)

[/ QUOTE ]

no i meant why can't he have Ax after he c/r min flop and check turn, BEFORE the crai...i was arguing the merit in my turn bet.

Re: AK wtf??
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
bc ax doesnt crai on turns unimproved? (improved =he picked up a FD or turned 2pair)

[/ QUOTE ]

no i meant why can't he have Ax after he c/r min flop and check turn, BEFORE the crai...i was arguing the merit in my turn bet.

[/ QUOTE ]
Why? Board is superdry on flop. He usually leads Ax if he decided to CR flop. Dunno, I just never see a random ace check calling their way to valuetown after CR'ing flop. Which means people either don't play Ax like that on flop, or they c/f it on the turn fearing the big riverbet? No idea.

After I' being CR'ed on a flop like this, in my experience after they check turn they fold a large majority of the time. CR all in a small part of the time and c/c almost never. There are so few draws and stuff he can put us on.

So I guess he can have Ax, I just never get to see it.

Re: AK wtf??
 

ohhhh

my view on these types of situations is that you can guarantee yourself 2 streets of value by checking the turn and calling or betting the river if checked too, versus trying to get 3 streets and stack the worst part of his range(ax, axc) while leaving yourself open to getting crai'd by a range that has you crushed (aj, a2, a2c, a9, j9 22)

Re: AK wtf??
 

[ QUOTE ]
Check turn, call river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: AK wtf??
 

I also prefer a check on the turn, call most rivers, bet river when checked to. What are you trying to get 3 streets of value out of? If he's behind he's drawing very thin and probably not calling both the turn and the river.