200nl - passive postflop line w/KK overpair...
 

Villain is DJ Sensei...not sure why he's at 200nl, my guess is he's coaching.

he's playing 20/15 this session w/infinite postflop aggression (100 hands or so).

only history so far is that I 4-bet him once and he folded. if he's paying attention I called a $44 all in ($64 pot at river) from a shortstack w/33 on a 7s7x2s8x4x board.

Full Tilt Poker, $1/$2 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 5 Players
LeggoPoker Hand History Converter

BB: $244.10
UTG: $210.25
Hero (CO): $330.25
BTN: $210.45
SB: $216.40

Pre-Flop: K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (CO)
UTG folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $7</font>, BTN folds, SB calls $6, BB folds

Flop: ($16) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">SB bets $12</font>, Hero calls $12

Turn: ($40) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">SB bets $33</font>, Hero calls $33

River: ($106) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
SB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $80....</font>

not sure how I feel about my line and my river bet size. if he shoves it's $80 more to me w/~$340 in the pot.

thoughts?

Re: 200nl - passive postflop line w/KK overpair...
 

[ QUOTE ]

Pre-Flop: K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (CO)
UTG folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $7</font>, BTN folds, SB calls $6, BB folds

Flop: ($16) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">SB bets $12</font>, Hero calls $12



[/ QUOTE ]

quads + flush draw yo, take him to value tooooooooown!

Re: 200nl - passive postflop line w/KK overpair...
 

but seriously if you fail to raise the flop, then you gotta raise that turn. wtf at slowplaying KK here, especially given his "infinite postflop agression??

Re: 200nl - passive postflop line w/KK overpair...
 

If he knows you're solid, then you're usually not chasing a flushdraw on a paired board (unless KJcc, which he doesn't beat now anyway). So either he's not paying you off with Tx or a hand like that (it's unlikely that you're doing some kind of sophisticated multistreet float or turning an underpair into a bluff), or he's owning the crap out of you with T9, KJ, 44, etc.

Re: 200nl - passive postflop line w/KK overpair...
 

He's going to check raise you.

Re: 200nl - passive postflop line w/KK overpair...
 

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He's going to check raise you.

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Re: 200nl - passive postflop line w/KK overpair...
 

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He's going to check raise you.

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so I guess you guys wanna check the river and take a showdown? this was my gut, but i lacked the discipline

Re: 200nl - passive postflop line w/KK overpair...
 

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He's going to check raise you.

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so I guess you guys wanna check the river and take a showdown? this was my gut, but i lacked the discipline

[/ QUOTE ]yeah, he was either betting a draw/combo draw or had a set...I dont see any value in a bet there. If you think he will 3-bet 99/TT preflop then you can raise/call the flop...but I'd probably play it the same and check the river....flip a coin if he bet it.

Re: 200nl - passive postflop line w/KK overpair...
 

clear value bet vs QJ or Qx[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. TT,99 are very unlikely for obvious reasons.

Re: 200nl - passive postflop line w/KK overpair...
 

how do we know he is going to checkraise? Seems well played on the river.

Re: 200nl - passive postflop line w/KK overpair...
 

[ QUOTE ]
clear value bet vs QJ or Qx[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. TT,99 are very unlikely for obvious reasons.

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You aren't thinking ranges based on his actions. You are simply naming what hands will call there, and forgetting how small of that range is there.

Re: 200nl - passive postflop line w/KK overpair...
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
clear value bet vs QJ or Qx[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. TT,99 are very unlikely for obvious reasons.

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You aren't thinking ranges based on his actions. You are simply naming what hands will call there, and forgetting how small of that range is there.

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huh? So JQ/Qx/Tx does not make up a big part of his range?

Re: 200nl - passive postflop line w/KK overpair...
 

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how do we know he is going to checkraise? Seems well played on the river.

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Well. I don't think this hand gets posted (and the info about the odds we will be getting if CR'ed) if villain just calls or folds, do you?

I like the riverbet though.

Re: 200nl - passive postflop line w/KK overpair...
 

[ QUOTE ]
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clear value bet vs QJ or Qx[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. TT,99 are very unlikely for obvious reasons.

[/ QUOTE ]

You aren't thinking ranges based on his actions. You are simply naming what hands will call there, and forgetting how small of that range is there.

[/ QUOTE ]agree with Barrin...QJ is the only hand that calls this river..and he might actually fold QJ

Re: 200nl - passive postflop line w/KK overpair...
 

[ QUOTE ]
clear value bet vs QJ or Qx[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. TT,99 are very unlikely for obvious reasons.

[/ QUOTE ]


What would we be valuebetting that those hands can call?

Re: 200nl - passive postflop line w/KK overpair...
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
clear value bet vs QJ or Qx[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. TT,99 are very unlikely for obvious reasons.

[/ QUOTE ]

You aren't thinking ranges based on his actions. You are simply naming what hands will call there, and forgetting how small of that range is there.

[/ QUOTE ]
huh? So JQ/Qx/Tx does not make up a big part of his range?

[/ QUOTE ]KQcc and QJcc are the only hands he *MIGHT* cc with OOP, right? I dunno how he plays I guess, but I dont think many Tx hands are in his range at all.

Re: 200nl - passive postflop line w/KK overpair...
 

and I really don't think a call with QJ there is good anyway

Re: 200nl - passive postflop line w/KK overpair...
 

thx for the replies so far.

when he checked to me on the river, I was also thinking about what hands he put me on...I figured it looked like I was on a draw and may get looked up light on the river.

I wasn't sure if he'd play ATs/KTs/JTs this way. I also figured combo draws would be in his range as well (KJcc, KQcc, QJs.)

i was definitely surprised and dismayed when I got c/r'd

Re: 200nl - passive postflop line w/KK overpair...
 

against a good player with infinite aggression, i like raising the turn here. raising the flop lets him get away without double barreling, and if we dont raise the turn the river frequently goes check-bet-fold even if he has a marginal made hand pike a PP. raise the turn small, like to 75-80 or so. this is a value bet, so take all the action

Re: 200nl - passive postflop line w/KK overpair...
 

Your line looks weak so he's no expecting you to bet a river, so betting thin here may work. However, I really like your line when the river completely bricks. You should get looked up lighter on a brick IMO

Re: 200nl - passive postflop line w/KK overpair...
 

Also, are you taking this line specially because villian is DJ Sensai?

Re: 200nl - passive postflop line w/KK overpair...
 

holy [censored] this is a river bet always. checking behind is so weak.

i would call the river c/r. our hand looks like a draw alot (and i would suspect DJ to think we are drawing a ton- he is not a reg in this game and i doubt he has much history with OP). KK should rarely, if ever be in a TAG's hand range here as the OP (most tags would almost always raise/call flop), and I think DJ knows this.

our hand is underrepped right now. yeah, its a term used in the wrong situations sometimes but i think it really is here. i think that it's possible DJ could be c/r-ing for value with QJ- our hand either looks like a draw bluffing or a made hand turned bluff (think 77).

Re: 200nl - passive postflop line w/KK overpair...
 

i never play big pairs slow at any time fwiw, but it looks like a ten so im sure we can get some value here...


grunch - didnt think about a cr and since he did id throw up

Re: 200nl - passive postflop line w/KK overpair...
 

If you bet the river, you have to snap call any check raise. Your hand looks like what it is and villain may not be playing entirely normally for pedantic reasons if he's teaching, no concern for the $, etc.. I would be reasonably happy to bet/call.

Against a standard reg, I'd probably bet/fold without a read since most are almost never going to try pulling off a big bluff here.

Re: 200nl - passive postflop line w/KK overpair...
 

For 100 bb's against an aggressive player I would feel absolutely no shame in getting stacked here.

I like everything about the way you played the hand. NH

Instacall c/r and be happy about it, if he shows up with like KJ or a 9 or something weird then w/e you got unlucky.