Right play with J9s in BB ? NL25
 

Villain is 13/2 after 50 hands, but his stats didn´t influence my decision.

PokerStars Pot-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (9 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

MP3 ($22.30)
CO ($8)
Button ($20.10)
SB ($15.90)
Hero ($23.15)
UTG ($5.90)
UTG+1 ($24)
MP1 ($20.85)
MP2 ($42.85)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $0.25.
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises to $0.75</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, CO (poster) calls $0.50, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB calls $0.65, Hero calls $0.50.

Flop: ($3) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets $1.5</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $5</font>...



You like it ?

Re: Right play with J9s in BB ? NL25
 

fold. You have middle pair and a really bad draw. You're basically hoping to hit a Jack and against somebody that tight preflop he may have AK anyways. You're also going to get 3 bet regardless of what he has a ton of the time.

Re: Right play with J9s in BB ? NL25
 

Sorry, no. I don't like the PF call at all. On the flop: villain is 13/2 so he is pretty nitty, right? If he raises PF and CBs on the flop I'd give him credit for a hand.
What kind of hand could he have that fits into his (narrow) PF raise range and not has you crushed and / or is good enough to continue with? I guess I wouldn't even play my donkey end of the straight draw cause he could have you easily dominated...

Re: Right play with J9s in BB ? NL25
 

pf is fine but fold the flop

Re: Right play with J9s in BB ? NL25
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't like the PF call at all.

[/ QUOTE ]
Why? It's really cheap to call and Villain is a super nit. We stack this guy a ton when we hit big and we lose nothing when we miss / hit one pair.

EDIT: Oh wait? Who's Villain, flop bettor or preflop raiser?

Re: Right play with J9s in BB ? NL25
 

50 hands isnt a great sample, the read that your looking for is "nitty but stacks off with overpairs" (fairly common btw).

Also you would prefer to be multiway and more important - in position to make this call pre-flop.

Instafold the flop, we are ahead of nothing and could easily get stacked even if we hit a straight/2 pair/trips.

Re: Right play with J9s in BB ? NL25
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't like the PF call at all.

[/ QUOTE ]
Why? It's really cheap to call and Villain is a super nit. We stack this guy a ton when we hit big and we lose nothing when we miss / hit one pair.

EDIT: Oh wait? Who's Villain, flop bettor or preflop raiser?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, but with only one villain in the hand I'd rather raise here if I decide to play this hand...
Personal taste I guess...

Edit: But with villain being so nitty, he might come over the top with a premium hand...Hm, let's just cut out my opinion about the PF play and say that I don't like the post flop play. Sorry, somehow I can't really write good responses today...

Re: Right play with J9s in BB ? NL25
 

Guys, it's 4 way against (presumeably) bad players. It's 2 big blinds for us to call, we have a suited connector, and we have the best relative position AND we close the action. This is a must-call preflop.

Re: Right play with J9s in BB ? NL25
 

fold flop!

Re: Right play with J9s in BB ? NL25
 

[ QUOTE ]
Guys, it's 4 way against (presumeably) bad players. It's 2 big blinds for us to call, we have a suited connector, and we have the best relative position AND we close the action. This is a must-call preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]If you don't know what to do on this flop I'd argue that it's a "must call".

Re: Right play with J9s in BB ? NL25
 

The call PF is OK as long as you're good enough to insta-muck your hand on this flop.

Re: Right play with J9s in BB ? NL25
 

P/F is fine, please don't fold. As far as this flop, it's not ideal for you, so fold. Your draw is compromised and there is no guarantee a J moves you ahead. Assuming an 8 is good, the only action you will get when you hit it are from hands that have a million ways to river (censored) you.

Re: Right play with J9s in BB ? NL25
 

[ QUOTE ]
P/F is fine, please don't fold. As far as this flop, it's not ideal for you, so fold. Your draw is compromised and there is no guarantee a J moves you ahead. Assuming an 8 is good, the only action you will get when you hit it are from hands that have a million ways to river (censored) you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Right play with J9s in BB ? NL25
 

[ QUOTE ]
If you don't know what to do on this flop I'd argue that it's a "must call".

[/ QUOTE ]

You mean "must-fold"? Obv, if OP is gonna butcher the hand post-flop, he should fold. But what I'm saying is:

Tip 1 - Play well preflop - call.
Tip 2 - Play well postflop - fold on QJT.

But Tip 2 I thought was implied by everyone else's response.

Re: Right play with J9s in BB ? NL25
 

We have a suited one-gapper OOP against a preflop raiser AND a caller, plus one player who we have position on...all of these suck. However, we're getting 5-1 and our call will close the action. I think calling is fine here, but we're really looking for the flop to smack us in the face (2pair/combo draw/straight/QT8 flop).

The flop is an instant fold, though. SB donks into THREE people, and two of them have position on you (including the original preflop raiser). Also, your hand isn't strong. You have the weak end of a high straight and any Ace is drawing to a better straight than you.

Re: Right play with J9s in BB ? NL25
 

Getting 1:5 this was an easy call for me PF.

On the flop, i saw middle pair + OESD = Many outs + Villain might bet a draw -&gt; Raise him.

Then, after he had folded i thought that this special pair + OESD might not have been that good...

Re: Right play with J9s in BB ? NL25
 

For those of you folding preflop, when can you enter the pot with SC's? Unfortunately, you are not simply going to be handed opportunities all day long to have 9h8h on the button against payoff wizards, deepstacked. Life is not perfect. In this spot, the pot is multiway, our hand is playable, and we get to close the action.

It is deceiving to assume that you have "many" outs on this flop. K's or 9's, IF they are outs, are not good ones by any means. A J doesn't guarantee anything, and an offsuit 8 will thrill us but lead to no action.

Raising is noble but you have less FE then you think, Villain has a lot of holdings that are all over this board and not folding.

Re: Right play with J9s in BB ? NL25
 

Would it help for me to add that J9s (particularly diamonds) has mythical status in our home games and seems to win pots almost regardless of how badly you play it?! With friends, and with $60 each and several beers in front of us, I'd be all-in preflop!

In the real world, I think the call pre-flop is cool, but I couldn't fold it quickly enough post-flop. The reasons for doing that (ie you have a weak hand on a nasty board and several opponents) have already been emphasised by others.

Re: Right play with J9s in BB ? NL25
 

I think the preflop call is fine geting 9-2 but obviously you are playing this weak hand OOP because of its potential to flop a big draw/ big made hand and then getting the money in. PF is fine.
I DONT like the flop play at all. You have second pair, no kicker, outs to a sucker draw that could be tainted by flush cards, bad position, pf raiser yet to act, and a SB that is donking into a 4-way raised pot!!!!!!!! Easy fold.