New lifting routine - critique?
 

Sorry if I come across as a lame newb here but please be gentle.
Background: 35, used to lift alot in college (enough to the point that I did bench press sets of 8-12 with 265-275)and enjoyed it. I like many turned into a slob last 8 years or so. I have been doing cardio (eliptical) 30 minutes 3-5 times a week for two years and realize I need to weight train to really get back in shape. Goal is weight loss and getting muscle back.

I have a friend I can lift with every 2-3 days but at the time we can go it is fairly crowded. We are have been doing the workout really quick with minimal rest between sets to make it kinda cardio as well so want to use minimal number of apparatus at a time to minimize time between sets and the crowding.

This is what we have been doing the last two weeks in this order generally (note we can't go every day to train alternate muscle groups):

3 sets flat bench
2 sets inclines
3 sets barbell butterflys

2 sets shoulder with barbells (lift straight out to 90 degrees)

3 sets triceps (with a curl bar that we lay down on a bench and then flex/extend to forehead)

3 sets biceps either with curl bar or barbells

3 sets lats on a machine with pulling bar down behind neck

abs (crunches on one of those slanted boards)

We do these with maximal effort and spotting where applicable. I know we don't do legs but I am not really interested in bulking up there - I played soccer and still have lots of muscle in my legs.

Is this a decent workout for 2 35/39 year old guys? I am still going to do the eliptical 3 days a week on top of this. I have felt great since starting. Or am I doing something horribly wrong here?

Re: New lifting routine - critique?
 

yes it sucks hard (something is better than nothing though). Seriously, squats and deadlifts need to be in there. Read the sticky.

Re: New lifting routine - critique?
 

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yes it sucks hard (something is better than nothing though). Seriously, squats and deadlifts need to be in there. Read the sticky.

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Good point.
Problem is that he works a day job - we are usually going around 4 pm and those are always jam packed with the really serious guys who monopolize them for an hour at a time. I was trying to develop a routine where we can essentially just use the bench press straight through (or standing) and not waste any time between exercises and sets. Is there some machines we can do to replicate what we are missing (those are much more freed up)?

Yes, I read the sticky and links for probably an hour but it all seems to be directed to my old college self who worked out 6 days/wk for 2 hours, not two (relative) geezers trying to better ourselves in 45 minutes 3x/week. We got through my posted workout today in 47 minutes and feel like it was kinda helping from a cardio standpoint too doing it at that pace.

Re: New lifting routine - critique?
 

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yes it sucks hard (something is better than nothing though). Seriously, squats and deadlifts need to be in there. Read the sticky.

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Good point.
Problem is that he works a day job - we are usually going around 4 pm and those are always jam packed with the really serious guys who monopolize them for an hour at a time. I was trying to develop a routine where we can essentially just use the bench press straight through (or standing) and not waste any time between exercises and sets. Is there some machines we can do to replicate what we are missing (those are much more freed up)?

Yes, I read the sticky and links for probably an hour but it all seems to be directed to my old college self who worked out 6 days/wk for 2 hours, not two (relative) geezers trying to better ourselves in 45 minutes 3x/week. We got through my posted workout today in 47 minutes and feel like it was kinda helping from a cardio standpoint too doing it at that pace.

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The program I'm on is 3x/week and takes about 45 minutes to perform if you use about 1 minute rest periods. It's the Starting Strength program. Another poster here does the 5x5 program in under an hour, and it's also a 3x/week program.

Are the squat/power racks always taken because there's not enough of them? Or because most people squat at your gym? My gym basically has everyone doing curls and tricep pushdowns and rarely anyone squatting, which is nice.

You can do power cleans with a few feet of space and just the bar from the bench/incline/military press. Oftentimes the seated military and incline bench stations are unoccupied leaving a bar open to use. Power cleans are an awesome full body exercise that you should consider learning. You could also do front and overhead squats with the bench/incline/military press bar, although they probably won't be near your 5 rep max, but that's definitely an improvement on your program.

Oh yeah, deadlifts only require a bar, which you could definitely do at the bench press station.

Re: New lifting routine - critique?
 

I was always under the impression that lat pulldowns BEHIND your neck were bad for your back/shoulders, plus all the macho meatheads at the gym I worked at decided it was the best exercise to grunt loudly and cheat using momentum. Go for the regular lat pulldown and mixing it up with an underhand grip as well.

Re: New lifting routine - critique?
 

I really want to see this barbell butterfly exercise.

But yeah, blah blah this workout blows hard.

Re: New lifting routine - critique?
 

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but it all seems to be directed to my old college self who worked out 6 days/wk for 2 hours, not two (relative) geezers trying to better ourselves in 45 minutes 3x/week.

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I'm also a 37 year old geezer and lift 2x/week. I now deadlift both workouts and front squat in one. As previous poster said, read the sticky. The concepts can be applied to those of us with full time non-poker jobs.

My $.02....if you can, try working out in the a.m. before work. Weights likely to be less crowded.

Re: New lifting routine - critique?
 

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I was always under the impression that lat pulldowns BEHIND your neck were bad for your back/shoulders, plus all the macho meatheads at the gym I worked at decided it was the best exercise to grunt loudly and cheat using momentum. Go for the regular lat pulldown and mixing it up with an underhand grip as well.

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pullups are way better, why not just do that?

Re: New lifting routine - critique?
 

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but it all seems to be directed to my old college self who worked out 6 days/wk for 2 hours, not two (relative) geezers trying to better ourselves in 45 minutes 3x/week.

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I'm also a 37 year old geezer and lift 2x/week. I now deadlift both workouts and front squat in one.

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You may find (eventually) that DL twice a week is too much and change one of those to a lighter DL or other pull, as well as taking the occasional week off from DL.

Re: New lifting routine - critique?
 

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I know we don't do legs but I am not really interested in bulking up there - I played soccer and still have lots of muscle in my legs.

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I think everyone who's ever lifted has been told that squats are the backbone of any program, and yet a majority of folks decide that given the limited amount of time they have and their desire for bigger arms/chest and their contentment with the size/shape of their legs that they should do bench/curls. Pure folly.

Anyway. Get your diet in order, and whatever gets you into the gym or working out is a step in the right direction.

Re: New lifting routine - critique?
 

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but it all seems to be directed to my old college self who worked out 6 days/wk for 2 hours, not two (relative) geezers trying to better ourselves in 45 minutes 3x/week.

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I'm also a 37 year old geezer and lift 2x/week. I now deadlift both workouts and front squat in one.

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You may find (eventually) that DL twice a week is too much and change one of those to a lighter DL or other pull, as well as taking the occasional week off from DL.

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I found that out pretty quickly...on my back day I deadlift lighter weights and more reps. My back has been bothering me so that's been easier to cut down the weight. Also beginning to stretch my back, legs, hips more. Back issues are related to having a bad knee which led to tight hips which led to back issues. Funny how that's all connected.

Since I started squatting & lunges knee has been responding much better as leg strength improved.

Re: New lifting routine - critique?
 

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I know we don't do legs but I am not really interested in bulking up there - I played soccer and still have lots of muscle in my legs.

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I think everyone who's ever lifted has been told that squats are the backbone of any program, and yet a majority of folks decide that given the limited amount of time they have and their desire for bigger arms/chest and their contentment with the size/shape of their legs that they should do bench/curls. Pure folly.

Anyway. Get your diet in order, and whatever gets you into the gym or working out is a step in the right direction.

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I never played a sport in HS/college that had a lifting program, so I've never really been formally told anything one way or the other on squats until now, and certainly never shown how to do them. In college - yeah I was just lifting to look good. No formal instruction at all.

From a newbie's perspective these exercises are quite intimidating to learn, I will watch the videos and stuff. I'm not resistant to change here, that is why I am asking you guys. I wish I learned this when I was younger - I ran every day so the lifting was more of a side thing to look good.

When I went through the links in the sticky I thought the "starting strength" post was just trying to sell a book, didn't go through it all, now that I went back that link looks like pure gold.

Should I get a trainer for 5 sessions (this is at a 24 hr fitness) to teach us technique?

Re: New lifting routine - critique?
 

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I really want to see this barbell butterfly exercise.

But yeah, blah blah this workout blows hard.

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So maybe I am calling it the wrong name. I see people doing this all the time so whatever it is is pretty common.

Lay on flat bench with barbell in each hand straight up in air. Extend arms back while bending elbows so that elbows are bent 90 degrees and upper arms are parallel to floor, rinse and repeat. What is that called?

Oh, and thanks about the lat pulldowns issue, didn't know you aren't supposed to go behind head, but I do know enough to know not to cheat with momentum.

Re: New lifting routine - critique?
 

OK guys, so let's say I embrace this starting strength program (and somehow either through the links or a trainer learn how to do it all):

I already have at home the following in a dedicated exercise room:
bench press adjustable to incline with appropriate weights
sets of dumbells from 5 to 50 pounds
curl bar
a separate small bench to do barbell exercises on

I can't put a squat apparatus up there but I have a third garage spot I can put one in - I wouldn't want to do the whole routine in the garage since it is 115 in vegas in the summer but I could do some stuff out there and do the rest in the house.

Can I just set myself up at home with the above scenerio? The 24 hr fitness is packed at the times that my lifting buddy can go - I don't think there is any way I can do the progam most of you are proposing there - I am on a 2-10am sleep schedule so can't go in the AM with him.

Re: New lifting routine - critique?
 

Just to clarify why people are ragging on your wording- dumbells are the smaller weights meant to be held in one hand. Barbells are the big bars that you put plates on and are meant to be used with both hands. You can do a dumbell fly, but a barbell fly would be very difficult indeed.

Re: New lifting routine - critique?
 

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Lay on flat bench with barbell in each hand straight up in air. Extend arms back while bending elbows so that elbows are bent 90 degrees and upper arms are parallel to floor, rinse and repeat. What is that called?


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Sounds like a "skull crusher". I would cut it completely from your workout as it's an isolated tricep focus which is not really necessary.

You should probably skip the trainer, as unfortunately they are just as likely to tell you horribly wrong things as help you. If you can somehow find a trainer that you know is good & up on modern techniques, that would be helpful.

Re: New lifting routine - critique?
 

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Just to clarify why people are ragging on your wording- dumbells are the smaller weights meant to be held in one hand. Barbells are the big bars that you put plates on and are meant to be used with both hands. You can do a dumbell fly, but a barbell fly would be very difficult indeed.

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LOL [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] thx
Now I get the sarcasm of that other post. Woosh - right over my head!

Re: New lifting routine - critique?
 

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From a newbie's perspective these exercises are quite intimidating to learn, I will watch the videos and stuff. I'm not resistant to change here, that is why I am asking you guys. I wish I learned this when I was younger - I ran every day so the lifting was more of a side thing to look good.

When I went through the links in the sticky I thought the "starting strength" post was just trying to sell a book, didn't go through it all, now that I went back that link looks like pure gold.

Should I get a trainer for 5 sessions (this is at a 24 hr fitness) to teach us technique?

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I completely understand. You will quite frankly suck at squats for a while. Get the movement down by practicing bodyweight squats (at home etc). Get down between your legs, not over them. I played ice hockey and soccer in my childhood and high school, and I will tell you that although you may be fast or have big legs, they are probably weak as [censored]. Mine certainly were. You will also find that your hamstrings and glutes are weaker than your quads, which deep squats will certainly help remedy.

The link would probably be copyright infringement if it weren't ok'ed by the author. It is gold.

I would make sure to interview them before signing up for lessons. Let them know you just want feedback on your form for the specific exercises, not some instruction on their own isolation exercises. Make sure that if they are teaching you squats they are doing it correctly. I know that's kinda hard in your situation, but watch this video:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...ting&hl=en

and some of the youtube videos I posted in the november monthly [censored] thread. Those are good examples of squat form.

I imagine they will probably try to tell you different exercises to perform as well. I once asked a guy to check my back straightness during deadlifts, since I didn't have a partner or eyes in back of my head, and then he started asking me why I was doing them, like it was a poor exercise, or I was an idiot. Then he started showing me how to do stiff-legged deadlifts. How do you train at a gym and not know how to do a regular goddamned deadlift? I dunno, guess I'm just ranting here.

OK, rant over. 24 hr trainers can be annoying.

Re: New lifting routine - critique?
 

If you got a squat rack, squat stands, or powercage you could do all the exercises in the program. Maybe some rubber mats would be nice if you need to drop the weights for deadlifts, but for now you should be fine.

Re: New lifting routine - critique?
 

Thanks for the help, all.
I'll post a six month trip report!