Let\'s ask Ron Paul supporters to write letters on our behalf
 

Non-poker playing Ron Paul supporters support our position implicitly. They also seem to have boundless energy and enthusiasm that has only limited outlets. Let's post there sometimes to get them to help us out. I'll bet we could get a whole lot of help from them.

I started a thread at www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=356283&posted=1#post356283. It's gotten a ton of responses, all positive (I did post that picture of Ron Paul with the pros from the Fly-In...didn't hurt, to say the least). The forum is so busy that it's hard for me to keep my thread on the front page. Please comment there, and make sure to vote the thread 5-stars. Thanks.

Re: Let\'s ask Ron Paul supporters to write letters on our behalf
 

That and we need to blast Hannity at Fox news with this 'news' of the RP supporters big day since he always dismiss' them a kooks and phantoms.

hannity@foxnews.com

My letter to Hannity:

Ok, I know, you really doubt that Rep. Ron Paul has any 'REAL' supporters.

Please take note that his 'phantom' supporters just raised over FOUR MILLION dollars on Monday, Nov. 5, 2007, an amount only ever exceeded by Kerry the day he won the democratic nomination.

No general primary candidate in history has ever raised that much in one day.

The amazing part, Paul had nothing to do with it, it was his 'phantom' supporters who organized the one day event as a show of support.

The rest of the GOP needs to take note, many of the supporters (there are millions of them) are online poker skill gamers and the midnight passage of the UIGEA by the GOP is now rearing its ugly head and showing them (Ron Paul supports online freedom) what power they possess and that they can influence if a Republican wins the White House and if the GOP regains Congress.

Suppport Internet Freedom and well.......do not support ONE HUNDRED BILLION DOLLARS in trade sanctions to the European Union in order to violate our word as given when we signed the WTO Trade agreements.



XXXX XXXXXX
XXXXXX, WV
304-XXX-XXX (if you wish to ACTUALLY talk to an ordinary American).

Re: Let\'s ask Ron Paul supporters to write letters on our behalf
 

[ QUOTE ]
That and we need to blast Hannity at Fox news ....

[/ QUOTE ]

In response to yesterday's fundraisng drive, Hannity has suspended pro-Paul posts on his website.

http://forums.hannity.com/showthread.php?t=399271

Re: Let\'s ask Ron Paul supporters to write letters on our behalf
 

I think today should be aggravate Hannity day.

Also, this is now a semi-headline on FN now, below the impeach Cheney story:
www.foxnews.com


Hannity@foxnews.com


My letter in response to locking the thread:


Wow Hannity, I knew you hated Ron Paul, but going so far as to lock the RP thread on your discussion board.

And I thought you and the GOP were in favor of rights and free speech, I guess not.

And you wonder WHY so many members of the GOP are being pushed away from the party and WHY the GOP continues to slip.

Your actions are a prime example.

In closing, again if you wish to speak to a real, every day American, feel free to call or drop me a line in response.

obg

Re: Let\'s ask Ron Paul supporters to write letters on our behalf
 

I might have to drop Hannity a line.

Aside from that, let's all try to post to www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=356283&posted=1#post356283 if you can. It will keep my thread on the front page, and we'll likely get some free letters to Congress out of it.

Re: Let\'s ask Ron Paul supporters to write letters on our behalf
 

Will do, have joined and waiting on activation.

Meanwhile, drop Hannity a line or three.

I'm off to lucch with the wife and will check back later.

obg

Re: Let\'s ask Ron Paul supporters to write letters on our behalf
 

[ QUOTE ]
Non-poker playing Ron Paul supporters support our position implicitly. They also seem to have boundless energy and enthusiasm that has only limited outlets. Let's post there sometimes to get them to help us out. I'll bet we could get a whole lot of help from them.

I started a thread at www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=356283&posted=1#post356283. It's gotten a ton of responses, all positive (I did post that picture of Ron Paul with the pros from the Fly-In...didn't hurt, to say the least). The forum is so busy that it's hard for me to keep my thread on the front page. Please comment there, and make sure to vote the thread 5-stars. Thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with you on most things but this sounds manipulative to me. If I understand you, right you wish to get RP supporters to write letters in support of our issue, while PPA to the best of my knowledge as not asked there members to support Ron Paul. If PPA has backed Ron Paul I stand corrected, but I have been to there page many times and see nothing that ask members to support Ron Paul through donations or votes.

Re: Let\'s ask Ron Paul supporters to write letters on our behalf
 

If we want change, we should be willing to pull the wagon not just jump on for the ride. PPA seems to want to ride the fence on political matters. I really do not understand how we can expect politician to back our views if we are not willing to throw the full support of the organization behind them. Ron Paul is by far the most receptive to our views. This, I think, is an accepted fact. Yet, I do not see links to his page and a donation button on the PPA website. Nor do I see a plea for members to back Paul’s election.

Not sure, what PPA’s stance is on backing political candidates, but it seems they are trying to stay neutral in the whole thing. I think this is a huge mistake as it gives them little influence with politicians who are looking for votes and donations. If I am not mistaken, Paul was the only congressman willing to meet with PPA on their trip to Washington. What does the PPA give him in return? Basically nothing.

If we are not willing to put our vote and money behind the candidate that best represents our view on this issue than what exactly is the point? I find the PPA a dysfunctional organization.

Re: Let\'s ask Ron Paul supporters to write letters on our behalf
 

[ QUOTE ]
That and we need to blast Hannity at Fox news with this 'news' of the RP supporters big day since he always dismiss' them a kooks and phantoms.

hannity@foxnews.com

My letter to Hannity:

Ok, I know, you really doubt that Rep. Ron Paul has any 'REAL' supporters.

Please take note that his 'phantom' supporters just raised over FOUR MILLION dollars on Monday, Nov. 5, 2007, an amount only ever exceeded by Kerry the day he won the democratic nomination.

No general primary candidate in history has ever raised that much in one day.

The amazing part, Paul had nothing to do with it, it was his 'phantom' supporters who organized the one day event as a show of support.

The rest of the GOP needs to take note, many of the supporters (there are millions of them) are online poker skill gamers and the midnight passage of the UIGEA by the GOP is now rearing its ugly head and showing them (Ron Paul supports online freedom) what power they possess and that they can influence if a Republican wins the White House and if the GOP regains Congress.

Suppport Internet Freedom and well.......do not support ONE HUNDRED BILLION DOLLARS in trade sanctions to the European Union in order to violate our word as given when we signed the WTO Trade agreements.



XXXX XXXXXX
XXXXXX, WV
304-XXX-XXX (if you wish to ACTUALLY talk to an ordinary American).

[/ QUOTE ]

The active promotion of Guy Fawkes day was hilarious, Ill give them that. But Hillary raised 6.8 mill in a day before, so she has the record. Quite a lot of new donors as well.

I still oppose hitching our wagon to the RP crowd, vehemently. There are some synergies and areas of agreement, but his supporters get way out of line with spam and annoyance. We want in the mainstream media and I can see news show producers going, oh poker players are just another ragtag bunch of RP nuts, our viewers dont care. Being associated with him and his crowd is a big negative PR wise that will be hard to reverse if you start now. Poker is American, poker is normal, poker is mainstream. Ron Paul does not fit with those statements.

Re: Let\'s ask Ron Paul supporters to write letters on our behalf
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Non-poker playing Ron Paul supporters support our position implicitly. They also seem to have boundless energy and enthusiasm that has only limited outlets. Let's post there sometimes to get them to help us out. I'll bet we could get a whole lot of help from them.

I started a thread at www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=356283&posted=1#post356283. It's gotten a ton of responses, all positive (I did post that picture of Ron Paul with the pros from the Fly-In...didn't hurt, to say the least). The forum is so busy that it's hard for me to keep my thread on the front page. Please comment there, and make sure to vote the thread 5-stars. Thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with you on most things but this sounds manipulative to me. If I understand you, right you wish to get RP supporters to write letters in support of our issue, while PPA to the best of my knowledge as not asked there members to support Ron Paul. If PPA has backed Ron Paul I stand corrected, but I have been to there page many times and see nothing that ask members to support Ron Paul through donations or votes.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not manipulative. We want them to write because they support our position. PPA doesn't endorse political candidates, so it cannot endorse Ron Paul. My thread on the Ron Paul forum is completely above board. Did you read it?

Re: Let\'s ask Ron Paul supporters to write letters on our behalf
 

[ QUOTE ]
If we are not willing to put our vote and money behind the candidate that best represents our view on this issue than what exactly is the point? I find the PPA a dysfunctional organization.

[/ QUOTE ]

Another "the PPA didn't do what I wanted...therefore they are dysfunctional" post.

Re: Let\'s ask Ron Paul supporters to write letters on our behalf
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Non-poker playing Ron Paul supporters support our position implicitly. They also seem to have boundless energy and enthusiasm that has only limited outlets. Let's post there sometimes to get them to help us out. I'll bet we could get a whole lot of help from them.

I started a thread at www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=356283&posted=1#post356283. It's gotten a ton of responses, all positive (I did post that picture of Ron Paul with the pros from the Fly-In...didn't hurt, to say the least). The forum is so busy that it's hard for me to keep my thread on the front page. Please comment there, and make sure to vote the thread 5-stars. Thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with you on most things but this sounds manipulative to me. If I understand you, right you wish to get RP supporters to write letters in support of our issue, while PPA to the best of my knowledge as not asked there members to support Ron Paul. If PPA has backed Ron Paul I stand corrected, but I have been to there page many times and see nothing that ask members to support Ron Paul through donations or votes.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not manipulative. We want them to write because they support our position. PPA doesn't endorse political candidates, so it cannot endorse Ron Paul. My thread on the Ron Paul forum is completely above board. Did you read it?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I did along with seeing that huge pic of Paul and PPA. but you failed to metion that the PPA does not support Paul.I am sure this was just an over sight on your part and that you plan to post later that while you hope RP people write all their congressmen about the ban on poker the PPA refuses to be involved with the Ron Paul movement.

Re: Let\'s ask Ron Paul supporters to write letters on our behalf
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If we are not willing to put our vote and money behind the candidate that best represents our view on this issue than what exactly is the point? I find the PPA a dysfunctional organization.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have lost respect for you on that one. Has nothing to do with not doing what i want. Has to do with them collectiing donations to take trips to Washington which accomlish nothing, because they have no votes or money to back it up

Another "the PPA didn't do what I wanted...therefore they are dysfunctional" post.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Let\'s ask Ron Paul supporters to write letters on our behalf
 

[ QUOTE ]
Yes, I did along with seeing that huge pic of Paul and PPA. but you failed to metion that the PPA does not support Paul.I am sure this was just an over sight on your part and that you plan to post later that while you hope RP people write all their congressmen about the ban on poker the PPA refuses to be involved with the Ron Paul movement.

[/ QUOTE ]

No. I mentioned it. Yesterday. Please read the whole thread before casting accusions.

The PPA isn't "refusing" to get involved. It's not a 527 organization. PPA lobbies for positions, but doesn't endorse candidates. It cannot.

Re: Let\'s ask Ron Paul supporters to write letters on our behalf
 

[ QUOTE ]
Nor do I see a plea for members to back Paul’s election.

Not sure, what PPA’s stance is on backing political candidates, but it seems they are trying to stay neutral in the whole thing.

[/ QUOTE ]

The PPA is a 501(c)(3) corp. and is not allowed to promote a specific candidate, only issues.

You hve them confused with a 501(c)(4) or a 527, I believe it is, that can and does promote specific candidates.

obg

Re: Let\'s ask Ron Paul supporters to write letters on our behalf
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If we are not willing to put our vote and money behind the candidate that best represents our view on this issue than what exactly is the point? I find the PPA a dysfunctional organization.

[/ QUOTE ]



Another "the PPA didn't do what I wanted...therefore they are dysfunctional" post.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have lost respect for you on that one. Has nothing to do with not doing what i want. Has to do with them collectiing donations to take trips to Washington which accomlish nothing, because they have no votes or money to back it up

[/ QUOTE ]

I lost the respect of the newbie poster. Oh, the horrors.

Re: Let\'s ask Ron Paul supporters to write letters on our behalf
 

gamblerNC1,
FWIW, I'm not affiliated with the PPA in any way, I just happen to agree that the clause in the proposed Mass bill making online poker a felony is preposterous.

I can't see the manipulation in asking a group of motivated Ron Paul supporters to help prevent online poker from becoming a felony in Mass., when it is clear based on Ron Paul's positions his supporters would likely agree here.

I read through the thread on the Ron Paul site, and FWIW I didn't get the impression that the PPA was implying any promise of quid pro quo of financial or official support of their candidate in exchange for help. IMO this is simply a request for support from individuals who are apt to be like-minded on this issue.

Re: Let\'s ask Ron Paul supporters to write letters on our behalf
 

The mesage is two fold, not endorsing RP, read carefully.

1. Hannity marginalizes anyone who opposes his view, simply a dig.
2. Get the GOP to do as RP does, support individual choices and responsibility and get out of private lives if they want the GOP to return to power.

obg


[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
That and we need to blast Hannity at Fox news with this 'news' of the RP supporters big day since he always dismiss' them a kooks and phantoms.

hannity@foxnews.com

My letter to Hannity:

Ok, I know, you really doubt that Rep. Ron Paul has any 'REAL' supporters.

Please take note that his 'phantom' supporters just raised over FOUR MILLION dollars on Monday, Nov. 5, 2007, an amount only ever exceeded by Kerry the day he won the democratic nomination.

No general primary candidate in history has ever raised that much in one day.

The amazing part, Paul had nothing to do with it, it was his 'phantom' supporters who organized the one day event as a show of support.

The rest of the GOP needs to take note, many of the supporters (there are millions of them) are online poker skill gamers and the midnight passage of the UIGEA by the GOP is now rearing its ugly head and showing them (Ron Paul supports online freedom) what power they possess and that they can influence if a Republican wins the White House and if the GOP regains Congress.

Suppport Internet Freedom and well.......do not support ONE HUNDRED BILLION DOLLARS in trade sanctions to the European Union in order to violate our word as given when we signed the WTO Trade agreements.



XXXX XXXXXX
XXXXXX, WV
304-XXX-XXX (if you wish to ACTUALLY talk to an ordinary American).

[/ QUOTE ]

The active promotion of Guy Fawkes day was hilarious, Ill give them that. But Hillary raised 6.8 mill in a day before, so she has the record. Quite a lot of new donors as well.

I still oppose hitching our wagon to the RP crowd, vehemently. There are some synergies and areas of agreement, but his supporters get way out of line with spam and annoyance. We want in the mainstream media and I can see news show producers going, oh poker players are just another ragtag bunch of RP nuts, our viewers dont care. Being associated with him and his crowd is a big negative PR wise that will be hard to reverse if you start now. Poker is American, poker is normal, poker is mainstream. Ron Paul does not fit with those statements.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Let\'s ask Ron Paul supporters to write letters on our behalf
 

[ QUOTE ]
gamblerNC1,
FWIW, I'm not affiliated with the PPA in any way, I just happen to agree

I can't see the manipulation in asking a group of motivated Ron Paul supporters to help prevent online poker from becoming a felony in Mass., when it is clear based on Ron Paul's positions they likely agree this would be preposterous?

I read through the thread on the Ron Paul site, and FWIW I didn't get the impression that the PPA was implying any promise of quid pro quo of financial or official support of theie candidate in exchange for help. IMO this is simply a request for support from individuals who are apt to be like-minded on this issue.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks.

GamblerNC1 is just another ill-informed person with lots of opinions and no knowledge to back them up. He didn't even read my thread. He'd rather talk/write than listen/read.

Re: Let\'s ask Ron Paul supporters to write letters on our behalf
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Yes, I did along with seeing that huge pic of Paul and PPA. but you failed to metion that the PPA does not support Paul.I am sure this was just an over sight on your part and that you plan to post later that while you hope RP people write all their congressmen about the ban on poker the PPA refuses to be involved with the Ron Paul movement.

[/ QUOTE ]

No. I mentioned it. Yesterday. Please read the whole thread before casting accusions.

The PPA isn't "refusing" to get involved. It's not a 527 organization. PPA lobbies for positions, but doesn't endorse candidates.

[/ QUOTE ]

I understand that, but my point if they are not going to back anyone with money or votes, why would anyone risk joining them and pissing off the right wingers who can cost them both money and votes. Gun owners have the NRA. Unions back candidates for favor. the Right wing well we know they can throw an election, but the PPA just says, plese forget the right wing family crowd. Tell them to keep their vote and back us, though we can not in anyway support you. That does not sound dysfunctional to you? Keep writing those letter that congressmen never read and going to Washington to hear thanks but no thanks. Noble work.

Re: Let\'s ask Ron Paul supporters to write letters on our behalf
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Yes, I did along with seeing that huge pic of Paul and PPA. but you failed to metion that the PPA does not support Paul.I am sure this was just an over sight on your part and that you plan to post later that while you hope RP people write all their congressmen about the ban on poker the PPA refuses to be involved with the Ron Paul movement.

[/ QUOTE ]

No. I mentioned it. Yesterday. Please read the whole thread before casting accusions.

The PPA isn't "refusing" to get involved. It's not a 527 organization. PPA lobbies for positions, but doesn't endorse candidates.

[/ QUOTE ]

I understand that, but my point if they are not going to back anyone with money or votes, why would anyone risk joining them and pissing off the right wingers who can cost them both money and votes. Gun owners have the NRA. Unions back candidates for favor. the Right wing well we know they can throw an election, but the PPA just says, plese forget the right wing family crowd. Tell them to keep their vote and back us, though we can not in anyway support you. That does not sound dysfunctional to you? Keep writing those letter that congressmen never read and going to Washington to hear thanks but no thanks. Noble work.

[/ QUOTE ]

Another uninformed post.

[ QUOTE ]
I understand that

[/ QUOTE ]

It does not appear that you do. Please stop wasting our time.

Re: Let\'s ask Ron Paul supporters to write letters on our behalf
 

Here's my Ron Paul forum post. Does it look manipulative to anyone but gamblerNC1 (BTW, we're not gamblers):

Hi all. This is my first post here, but I have been a Ron Paul supporter since late last year. I've posted regularly about this at www.twoplustwo.com and at other sites. I started supporting him when he was one of the few politicians to support my right to play poker and other games on the Internet. Is this the most important issue confronting us today? Perhaps not, but it is important to many poker players and freedom lovers, and it’s important to Dr. Paul too. He has often spoken out in our favor. And, he found time last week to meet with me and with some fellow poker players (which was awesome):

http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x...thRonPaul1.jpg
Victor Ramdin, Andy Bloch, Rep. Ron Paul, Howard Lederer, Chris Ferguson, and me

Federal restrictions on Internet poker is the ultimate expression of the nanny-state attitudes so prevalent in Washington D.C. Perhaps that’s why we should all fight hard for this, as Rep. Paul has. I’ve been fighting, and I hope you’ll all join the fight.

Re: Let\'s ask Ron Paul supporters to write letters on our behalf
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Non-poker playing Ron Paul supporters support our position implicitly. They also seem to have boundless energy and enthusiasm that has only limited outlets. Let's post there sometimes to get them to help us out. I'll bet we could get a whole lot of help from them.

I started a thread at www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=356283&posted=1#post356283. It's gotten a ton of responses, all positive (I did post that picture of Ron Paul with the pros from the Fly-In...didn't hurt, to say the least). The forum is so busy that it's hard for me to keep my thread on the front page. Please comment there, and make sure to vote the thread 5-stars. Thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with you on most things but this sounds manipulative to me. If I understand you, right you wish to get RP supporters to write letters in support of our issue, while PPA to the best of my knowledge as not asked there members to support Ron Paul. If PPA has backed Ron Paul I stand corrected, but I have been to there page many times and see nothing that ask members to support Ron Paul through donations or votes.

[/ QUOTE ]

I posted this last night: "Due to the structure of the PPA, we won't be able to endorse anyone". Could I have been any clearer?

Re: Let\'s ask Ron Paul supporters to write letters on our behalf
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Non-poker playing Ron Paul supporters support our position implicitly. They also seem to have boundless energy and enthusiasm that has only limited outlets. Let's post there sometimes to get them to help us out. I'll bet we could get a whole lot of help from them.

I started a thread at www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=356283&posted=1#post356283. It's gotten a ton of responses, all positive (I did post that picture of Ron Paul with the pros from the Fly-In...didn't hurt, to say the least). The forum is so busy that it's hard for me to keep my thread on the front page. Please comment there, and make sure to vote the thread 5-stars. Thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with you on most things but this sounds manipulative to me. If I understand you, right you wish to get RP supporters to write letters in support of our issue, while PPA to the best of my knowledge as not asked there members to support Ron Paul. If PPA has backed Ron Paul I stand corrected, but I have been to there page many times and see nothing that ask members to support Ron Paul through donations or votes.

[/ QUOTE ]

I posted this last night: "Due to the structure of the PPA, we won't be able to endorse anyone". Could I have been any clearer?

[/ QUOTE ]

And could i be any clearer. Thia is why they are usless and dysfunctional. To be effective we need a group who can endores those that support us as other goups do. Though many causes have a group start the same way as the PPA and then branch off into another group who can support and donate money to someone, but i am sure you know all about soft money and these groups. Without something to back up our pleas I don't understand how you can think a group can effect change. PPA has nothing to offer, not votes or endorements or money.

You know as well as i do that to make things happen you have to have something to give back. What is it that PPA offers?

When i said noble work by the way i emant it. I do respect your drive in this but I also realize that writing letters that never gets read are a waste of time. The time can better be spent on those endovors that produce results. Perhaps you would consider starting a real group with real power. One that can give something back to those that stick their neck out for poker and PPA. Sign me up as long as it does not revolve around writing letters that college kids working part time open up and send back with a form letter.

Re: Let\'s ask Ron Paul supporters to write letters on our behalf
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Non-poker playing Ron Paul supporters support our position implicitly. They also seem to have boundless energy and enthusiasm that has only limited outlets. Let's post there sometimes to get them to help us out. I'll bet we could get a whole lot of help from them.

I started a thread at www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=356283&posted=1#post356283. It's gotten a ton of responses, all positive (I did post that picture of Ron Paul with the pros from the Fly-In...didn't hurt, to say the least). The forum is so busy that it's hard for me to keep my thread on the front page. Please comment there, and make sure to vote the thread 5-stars. Thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with you on most things but this sounds manipulative to me. If I understand you, right you wish to get RP supporters to write letters in support of our issue, while PPA to the best of my knowledge as not asked there members to support Ron Paul. If PPA has backed Ron Paul I stand corrected, but I have been to there page many times and see nothing that ask members to support Ron Paul through donations or votes.

[/ QUOTE ]

I posted this last night: "Due to the structure of the PPA, we won't be able to endorse anyone". Could I have been any clearer?

[/ QUOTE ]

And could i be any clearer. Thia is why they are usless and dysfunctional. To be effective we need a group who can endores those that support us as other goups do. Though many causes have a group start the same way as the PPA and then branch off into another group who can support and donate money to someone, but i am sure you know all about soft money and these groups. Without something to back up our pleas I don't understand how you can think a group can effect change. PPA has nothing to offer, not votes or endorements or money.

You know as well as i do that to make things happen you have to have something to give back. What is it that PPA offers?

When i said noble work by the way i emant it. I do respect your drive in this but I also realize that writing letters that never gets read are a waste of time. The time can better be spent on those endovors that produce results. Perhaps you would consider starting a real group with real power. One that can give something back to those that stick their neck out for poker and PPA. Sign me up as long as it does not revolve around writing letters that college kids working part time open up and send back with a form letter.

[/ QUOTE ]

I couldn't disagree more with everything you posted. It's like you're just regurgitating things you've heard from others, but you post it as if its indisputable fact.

Re: Let\'s ask Ron Paul supporters to write letters on our behalf
 

Gaqmbler, I direct you to the thread:
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...part=2&vc=1

This has been proposed and is being looked at by the PPA, a 527 or (c)(4) offshoot group.

Patience is needed though, Rome was not built in a day and the PPA is only really now getting active, though I would agree, speed is important.

One thing mentioned here, money.

How many are actually pay members and how many are just free? All things take money, money to staff offices, rent, lights, heat, water.......

Me, yes, I am a paying member and will continue to be and may increase my membership, will increase it, if a side group is started since each will require funding.

Will you step up and help fund a 527 or (c)(4)?

obg

Re: Let\'s ask Ron Paul supporters to write letters on our behalf
 

[ QUOTE ]
This has been proposed and is being looked at by the PPA, a 527 or (c)(4) offshoot group.

Patience is needed though, Rome was not built in a day and the PPA is only really now getting active, though I would agree, speed is important.

[/ QUOTE ]

This issue has been around much longer than that. Rome may not have been built in a day, but how much money has gone to "smart" lobbiests who knew this day was comming long before now?

The PPA is dysfunctional in that on one hand it calls itself a grassroots organization devoted to issue advoacy but isn't actually organazed as a group that can do so.

Take TE's KY announcements, and I'm sure the lawyers looked at them, they come pretty close to endorsing a candidate without actually doing so.

The PPA as structured can only educate members of Congress and sure it has done well on the House side of the Hill. The ogranization acts like 1/2 the time that the lobbing strategy will win the day, then looks around and says we're a grassroots group dedicated to keeping poker legal.

Sorry you just can be of "two minds" and realistically achieve your objective.

For almost 6 months that I know of this issue of the political identity of the PPA has been an issue. We have weeks until the first primaries and less than a year until the next general election.

We are wasting time!


D$D

Re: Let\'s ask Ron Paul supporters to write letters on our behalf
 

An impressive RP story at AOL and why we should be courting them to help support us, in a poll 57% said they felt RP can win the GOP nomination.

Not scientific, but impressive anyway.

Story:
http://www.gambling911.com/Ron-Paul-110607B.html

obg

Re: Let\'s ask Ron Paul supporters to write letters on our behalf
 

[ QUOTE ]
Gaqmbler, I direct you to the thread:
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...part=2&vc=1

This has been proposed and is being looked at by the PPA, a 527 or (c)(4) offshoot group.

Patience is needed though, Rome was not built in a day and the PPA is only really now getting active, though I would agree, speed is important.

One thing mentioned here, money.

How many are actually pay members and how many are just free? All things take money, money to staff offices, rent, lights, heat, water.......

Me, yes, I am a paying member and will continue to be and may increase my membership, will increase it, if a side group is started since each will require funding.

Will you step up and help fund a 527 or (c)(4)?

obg

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I made a donation and joined when they first started up, but have not and will not give anything to what is no more than a letter writing campaigne. Sorry, if they start a group that has real teeth i might once again donate.

Re: Let\'s ask Ron Paul supporters to write letters on our behalf
 

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An impressive RP story at AOL and why we should be courting them to help support us, in a poll 57% said they felt RP can win the GOP nomination.

Not scientific, but impressive anyway.

Story:
http://www.gambling911.com/Ron-Paul-110607B.html

obg

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I saw it, that was cool. Not scientific maybe but I am not sure how many of what is suppose to be scientific polls really are. Seems most are carefully set up to produce basis. I read an article today from one of the polling sites and cannot remember which one but it was a national and recognized poll. They admitted that something in the polls was wrong. They felt it would be impossible for Ron Paul to only being polling 5% nationally and raise as much money as he did. They also pointed out his performance in straw polls and stated that these factors and others, represented more like 15 or 20 % base. So I am not surprised that 57% said he had a chance. Something is flawed with the polling, I have no doubt. Many of Ron Paul’s supports are flying under the radar of the polling methods.

Re: Let\'s ask Ron Paul supporters to write letters on our behalf
 

[ QUOTE ]
I made a donation and joined when they first started up, but have not and will not give anything to what is no more than a letter writing campaigne. Sorry, if they start a group that has real teeth i might once again donate.

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I wasn't going to reply, but I have to reply to points relating to what we're doing here on this forum.

First of all, how is this only a "letter writing campaign"? PPA has done extensive lobbying, especially during the beginning of this year. Look it up.

Our letter writing (2+2 members, PPA, and others) augments this work, and the efforts go hand in hand.

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Without something to back up our pleas I don't understand how you can think a group can effect change. PPA has nothing to offer, not votes or endorements or money. You know as well as i do that to make things happen you have to have something to give back. What is it that PPA offers?

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PPA has 800,000 young, energized voters who aren't aligned as a group with either party. How is that "nothing to offer?" I think you overrate endorsements by a great deal. Perhaps you should have come to D.C. for the Fly-In to see how things are being handled. If you met with John Pappas and D'Amato, I imagine they would have hired you to run PPA, as you clearly have all the answers that they don't. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Also, I think you (and many here) overrate the importance the rest of America places on UIGEA. We have people, but we have to earn the respect of Congress. Even critics of PPA like D$D will vouch for PPA's lobbyists and the lobbying effort.

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When i said noble work by the way i emant it. I do respect your drive in this but I also realize that writing letters that never gets read are a waste of time.

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Too late for that. You already said you have no respect for me.

As to your comment about letters....proof please (opinions doesn't count). My letters to Congress were read. That was confirmed for me when I met with McConnell's staff and when I met with Rep. Geoff Davis' staff. Both staffs kidded me about the volume of letters I wrote, in fact, and both were clearly familiar with what I wrote. Also the book The Lobbyists discusses in detail the importance of letters and phone calls when combined with lobbying. And, our lobbyists told me our letters and phone calls are extremely important.

So, why would you try to tell us to stop writing letters when you have NO IDEA how effective writing is??? It's not good enough that you THINK they aren't read, or that you THINK they are replied to by interns.

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Perhaps you would consider starting a real group with real power. One that can give something back to those that stick their neck out for poker and PPA.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why don't you start up such a group? You know...one with REAL POWER. LOL. Seems you know it all and have all the answers. I hope it's successful.

Re: Let\'s ask Ron Paul supporters to write letters on our behalf
 

[ QUOTE ]
Even critics of PPA like D$D will vouch for PPA's lobbyists and the lobbying effort.

[/ QUOTE ]

While I vouch for the quality of the lobbing effort's people, I am in no way convinced that enough empahisas has been expended in training our own "grassroots" lobbiests.

The PPA has IMO been entirely too dependent on "hired guns."

Lobbiests have their uses and can carry as much of the load as you are willing to pay them to do, but there are a very expensive resource. IMO they should be fully utilized up and until we can fill that void with proven members of the organization.

Too much of the budget has been spent in this direction IMO. I really don't see it changing anytime soon.

IMO the PPA needs to utilize the hired talent to keep the ball moving but also train and motivate our own people.

To some degree it is like a self financed candidate trying to raise money. There is no reason for anyone to really pony up when they know the candidate can and will spend the money.

Unless the PPA can get to the point where its numbers aren't generated from freerolls and really tries to find out how much support it really has besides the industry backers, we will always be behind the curve.

This is where concrete actions speak louder than letters or press releases. This is the main complaint of the majority of non-members. The flip side is of course, are the members even willing or able to step up.

As I've stated this is the great unknown.


[ QUOTE ]
Why don't you start up such a group? You know...one with REAL POWER. LOL. Seems you know it all and have all the answers. I hope it's successful.

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TE, you really have to stop with this scarcastic lashing out. As a valued and respected member of this forum you can do as you personally please. But you are now wearing two hats. Just as no one was satisified with Al supporting Thompson without a pledge from Fred about poker, you can not act this way and when called on it claim some sort of personal immunity.

I am as guilty as anyone, perhaps more of letting my emotions enter into my argurments that I post here. I am well aware of what that may have cost me on a number of levels, but it is a price I am willingly and openly to pay.

As only a member of the PPA, I implore you to attempt to realize that even when you don't mean to, you represent the PPA in every word you type. No it is not fair to ask you to self censor yourself as you as a personal citizen have the right to express yourslef as you please. But the reality is you lost some of those rights when your nomination to the PPA board was ratified.

You responsibilities extend beyond your personal feelings.


D$D

Re: Let\'s ask Ron Paul supporters to write letters on our behalf
 

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[ QUOTE ]
Even critics of PPA like D$D will vouch for PPA's lobbyists and the lobbying effort.

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While I vouch for the quality of the lobbing effort's people

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That's all I was talking about.


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TE, you really have to stop with this scarcastic lashing out.

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I wasn't being sarcastic. I meant it.

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you can not act this way and when called on it claim some sort of personal immunity.

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I disagree.

Re: Let\'s ask Ron Paul supporters to write letters on our behalf
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
you can not act this way and when called on it claim some sort of personal immunity.

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I disagree.

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I understand that. But every time you post that you are willing to taken on some role as a communication agent between 2+2 and the PPA that has meaning because of your position on the board, that value is diminished when you allow yourself to become overboard in a response to some idiot like me.

There is often no need for it really.

I know you seem to place some merit in the polls you post, but if you look at the trafic in this forum, some many more people lurk but seldom post, the auidence is much more broad that the active posters.

You lable me as a critic of the PPA, which I guess is fair in some respects, but I do not consider myself a critic in the way Mason is or inactive members or even non-members of the PPA.

I do not see myself that way at all. I actually participate in all of the activities and more as a member of the organization.

You seem to see people as either allies or some form of opposition with little margin for the in-between.

In your role as a board member you should be mindful of the perception you project for the PPA.

The problem for the PPA is they (we), can only count something less than one out of thirty self identified poker players as members. Given that a large number of the even published number are soft realistically it is perhaps closer to one in fifty ot sixty.

The PPA because of its history is more netrual in a lot of peoples minds. All of the self identified poker players to some degree agree on the goals of the organization and have high hopes for ultimate sucess. The problem the PPA faces daily is one or proving its worth. Tarring anyone currently involved with that legacy might be unfair, but it is just as unfair to expect peoples opinions to change just because a few changes have been made in less than 3 months.

I really consider myself an active supporter of the PPA.

If you can't see than then perhaps we don't have much to build on.


D$D

Re: Let\'s ask Ron Paul supporters to write letters on our behalf
 

Please allay my concerns.

It seems to me that the areas that you harp about ineffectiveness by the PPA, are the same areas that you consider to be your field of expertise.

I try to keep an open mind, thus my asking, but it almost seems as though you are lobbying for employment by over-emphasis of the importance of those areas, to the detriment of acknowledging the value of other areas.

If I am wrong about this, I can accept that.

Just stating how it seems to appear to me.

Re: Let\'s ask Ron Paul supporters to write letters on our behalf
 

[ QUOTE ]
Please allay my concerns.

It seems to me that the areas that you harp about ineffectiveness by the PPA, are the same areas that you consider to be your field of expertise.

I try to keep an open mind, thus my asking, but it almost seems as though you are lobbying for employment by over-emphasis of the importance of those areas, to the detriment of acknowledging the value of other areas.

If I am wrong about this, I can accept that.

Just stating how it seems to appear to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well if I was a lawyer and thought there was a legal issue would you question me offering legal advice?

I speak of the issues I feel most comfortable and knowledgible about. Other issues like taxes, finance and investment I have experience in, but my passion in politics is in grassroots.

So I guess I fully understand your point from a preception point of view.

I'd love to be involved in the PPA, as any time in your life you can find a job you are passionate about and love the work, it is a fun way to spend the time and the idea way to make a living as work is always fun.

I've made tried to make it clear to John and this forum that I will try to offer whatever talents I have to the cause volunteer or otherwise. If it comes off as over the top in my concerns based on my area of expertise, then it is what it is.

What I will not do is in effect train or coach someone else. I've been down that path before as well. Occasionally it works out well, more often than not it doesn't work out.

It is not my intention to continue to harp on this issue.

Given my impression of the potential political timetable, combined with my knowledge of what it takes to build a sucessful grassroots effort, including the history of the PPA and the challenges who ever is tasked with that job that legacy carries, I feel no matter who has to do it they have to start yesterday.

Call it a 24 hour rant if you want.

As I've said a few times, I've been involved in enough campaings to know the feeling too well of wishing you had just one more week. It is a horrible feeling.

I my own a cracked crystal ball, but with each passing day the void is killing me. Too a large degree I don't care who does the job as long as it gets done.

The most useless words IMO would be to say a year from, "I told you so....."


D$D

Re: Let\'s ask Ron Paul supporters to write letters on our behalf
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Please allay my concerns.

It seems to me that the areas that you harp about ineffectiveness by the PPA, are the same areas that you consider to be your field of expertise.

I try to keep an open mind, thus my asking, but it almost seems as though you are lobbying for employment by over-emphasis of the importance of those areas, to the detriment of acknowledging the value of other areas.

If I am wrong about this, I can accept that.

Just stating how it seems to appear to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well if I was a lawyer and thought there was a legal issue would you question me offering legal advice?

I speak of the issues I feel most comfortable and knowledgible about. Other issues like taxes, finance and investment I have experience in, but my passion in politics is in grassroots.

So I guess I fully understand your point from a preception point of view.

I'd love to be involved in the PPA, as any time in your life you can find a job you are passionate about and love the work, it is a fun way to spend the time and the idea way to make a living as work is always fun.

I've made tried to make it clear to John and this forum that I will try to offer whatever talents I have to the cause volunteer or otherwise. If it comes off as over the top in my concerns based on my area of expertise, then it is what it is.

What I will not do is in effect train or coach someone else. I've been down that path before as well. Occasionally it works out well, more often than not it doesn't work out.

It is not my intention to continue to harp on this issue.

Given my impression of the potential political timetable, combined with my knowledge of what it takes to build a sucessful grassroots effort, including the history of the PPA and the challenges who ever is tasked with that job that legacy carries, I feel no matter who has to do it they have to start yesterday.

Call it a 24 hour rant if you want.

As I've said a few times, I've been involved in enough campaings to know the feeling too well of wishing you had just one more week. It is a horrible feeling.

I my own a cracked crystal ball, but with each passing day the void is killing me. Too a large degree I don't care who does the job as long as it gets done.

The most useless words IMO would be to say a year from, "I told you so....."


D$D

[/ QUOTE ]

D$D,

This is getting very old. The truth of the matter is that PPA reviewed your proposals and simply didn't go with them. You have your ideas of how PPA should be doing things, and they don't always agree. That's all, and you know that.

The thing that makes working with you very challenging is that you won't accept "no" for an answer. You come here to complain about every rejection in multi-paragraph, multi-post, multi-thread rants. And, you don't say (until now, which is why I don't mind mentioning it), "I proposed the following to PPA; they decided other issues took priority and I disagree -- here's why". Rather, you write that PPA is failing because they're not doing x, y, and z, without mentioning that you proposed x, y, and z and were turned down after due consideration. In other words, you make it sound like PPA didn't do x, y, or z because they hadn't considered doing them at all. You then follow that up by explaining at least daily how you've been in D.C. since Washington was a corporal and that you've seen it all and done it all.

The KY election is a perfect example. We were up by 20 points two months ago. We won by 20 points. We spent the right amount and got enough press to do what we wanted to do. That was the plan, and that's what we executed. You had a different plan. You wanted PPA to send you there to organize all the bar leagues across the state (which had little to do with the actual election, by the way), plus a number of other activities. PPA considered it and didn't go with it for a number of reasons relating to priorities. You knew this. So, on election eve, what did you do? You harped about "missed opportunities", while conveniently skipping over the fact that you wanted PPA to hire you to do the plan you laid out in your "missed opportunities" posts. Sorry, but turning down your offer in favor of other priorities is not a "sin of omission"...it's a business decision.

You keep trying to make it personal. I have no problems with you as a person. However, surely you can see how frustrating it can be to many people when they read about their discussions with you on 2+2 the next day, as if you're trying to drum up support.