KK for value on the river?
 

PokerStars 0.02/0.04 Hold'em (10 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, MP3 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP3 calls.

Flop: (5 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP3 calls.

Turn: (3.50 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP3 calls.

River: (5.50 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero...

So, is bet/fold here for value or am I just asking to get whacked between the eyes with a garden rake? The fish was something like 86/0 over a few hands. I think I'll get called with smaller pairs some of the time. If I check I don't think I'll induce a bluff with a busted straight draw ("inducing a bluff" is really not in the language of .02/.04!)

Re: KK for value on the river?
 

bet

Re: KK for value on the river?
 

bet.

given this,

[ QUOTE ]
The fish was something like 86/0 over a few hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

fold if he raises.

Re: KK for value on the river?
 

There's really very little info in this hand because MP3 has just been calling the whole time. I think that a value bet is good and probably a bit better than checking at this level. I wouldn't fold a raise from MP3 but would just call.

Re: KK for value on the river?
 

I'd bet/call the river. Villian has shown no strength so far, if he raised I'd make a cry'in call.

Re: KK for value on the river?
 

[ QUOTE ]
("inducing a bluff" is really not in the language of .02/.04!)

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagre. In fact, I think its quite the opposite with many players at this level. Many of these players live for the idea to push you off a hand and they will gladly pay 10BB/100 for the pleasure trying to bluff regardless of previous action and board when checked to.

I still bet tho. I think you can fold to a raise.

Re: KK for value on the river?
 

I'd bet and call a raise. Enough players raise when they see 2 pair to make a call profitable. Against the right player I'd consider a 3bet, but only rarely.

Re: KK for value on the river?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think I'll get called with smaller pairs 99.99% of the time

[/ QUOTE ]

hero bets. this guy will pay off with alot more hands than he will bet with if you check. checking just allows him to see SD for free when you have him beat and to bet when he beats you.

btw your 86/0 read is basically preflop stats....some semblance of a postflop read would help here.

Re: KK for value on the river?
 

Definitely bet, but what I'm wondering is whether the size of the pot makes a difference as to whether the better line is b/f or b/c? I've been operating with the idea that the bigger the pot, the worse it is to fold to one bet in a case like this. Is that rational, or an idea I should get out of my head?

Re: KK for value on the river?
 

yep bet

Re: KK for value on the river?
 

The only question on this hand whether to bet/fold or bet/call. Personally, I am calling a raise, but I can see bet/fold being a reasonable alternative. Any line that involves checking is terrible.

Re: KK for value on the river?
 

Yes, this is a clear value bet.

Re: KK for value on the river?
 

Bet then call.. you can't bet and fold because the pot is too big and I think you will win this hand enought to make betting and calling profitable.

Re: KK for value on the river?
 

[ QUOTE ]
btw your 86/0 read is basically preflop stats....some semblance of a postflop read would help here.

[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry, if I had a semblance I would have shared it. The guy only lasted about 15 hands so even the PFR stat is suspect though the 86% at least represents a trend.

The rest of the story:


River: (5.50 BB) 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
<font color="red">Hero bets</font> , MP3 calls.

Final Pot: 7.50 BB

And what does MP3 muck?

T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Somewhere I hear a little bubbly voice saying "...but I had a gutshot on the turn, and I had to call to see if he was bluffing."

Re: KK for value on the river?
 

vils turn and river play is fine....

Re: KK for value on the river?
 

[ QUOTE ]

Somewhere I hear a little bubbly voice saying "...but I had a gutshot on the turn, and I had to call to see if he was bluffing."

[/ QUOTE ]

Villain has TPNK, not only gutshot.

Re: KK for value on the river?
 

Villain's postflop play is fine, given his atrocious preflop call.

Re: KK for value on the river?
 

You're right, he had the odds postflop.