100NL; Arag with TP facing 1/2 pot on river vs. unknown
 

Villian is unknown. Less then 10 hands.


PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

BB ($102.60)
UTG ($59.50)
MP ($17.30)
CO ($99.85)
Hero ($138.50)
SB ($76.90)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, CO calls $1, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $5</font>, SB calls $4.50, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, CO calls $4.

Flop: ($16) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, CO checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $13</font>, SB folds, CO calls $13.

Turn: ($42) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
CO checks, Hero checks.

River: ($42) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">CO bets $20</font>, Hero ???

Re: 100NL; Arag with TP facing 1/2 pot on river vs. unknown
 

Definitely call, no value in raising, too weak to fold.

Re: 100NL; Arag with TP facing 1/2 pot on river vs. unknown
 

[ QUOTE ]
Definitely call, no value in raising, too weak to fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

What if the flop was rainbow?

Re: 100NL; Arag with TP facing 1/2 pot on river vs. unknown
 

eh probably call. turn can be a b/f and check river sometimes.

Re: 100NL; Arag with TP facing 1/2 pot on river vs. unknown
 

pretty snappy call for me vs. an unknown. so many people do this with stupid.

Re: 100NL; Arag with TP facing 1/2 pot on river vs. unknown
 

call

should be betting the turn though i think

Re: 100NL; Arag with TP facing 1/2 pot on river vs. unknown
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Definitely call, no value in raising, too weak to fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

What if the flop was rainbow?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd probably bet/fold turn if it was rainbow, I might bet/fold here too on the turn just so we can get value from a draw. But when we check the turn, it looks like we're giving up so he's gonna fire with all of his range almost.

Re: 100NL; Arag with TP facing 1/2 pot on river vs. unknown
 

Hmmm wow...this is like an almost very standard check behind on turn and call river bet for me.


Most people here think I should be bet/folding the turn? And I should be bet/folding the turn even on a rainbow board? What hand am I trying to get value from by doing that....I could see ok getting some from draws, but other than that and especially on a rainbow board I'm not ahead of much here.

Can somebody explain this to me please.

Re: 100NL; Arag with TP facing 1/2 pot on river vs. unknown
 

fold

Re: 100NL; Arag with TP facing 1/2 pot on river vs. unknown
 

I dunno but it seems I can bet the turn and still get a call from like 99 that is stubborn. I mean, he open limp/called, he's not that great. You'd be surprised how many people want to catch you bluffing.

Re: 100NL; Arag with TP facing 1/2 pot on river vs. unknown
 

you can bet the turn because you can still gain value from a draw or some other dumb 2nd pair and there are not so many great cards on the river. villans like this will rarely c/r the turn with a draw as well so we can easily fold to a c/r.

Re: 100NL; Arag with TP facing 1/2 pot on river vs. unknown
 

[ QUOTE ]
I dunno but it seems I can bet the turn and still get a call from like 99 that is stubborn. I mean, he open limp/called, he's not that great. You'd be surprised how many people want to catch you bluffing.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, but at the same time, tons of idiots float flop with a small pair and then fire it on the river for no good reason.

Re: 100NL; Arag with TP facing 1/2 pot on river vs. unknown
 

What if villian check calls the turn and then leads the river? I almost always think it's really weird to play a hand like that but I see people do it.


Also...how much is everyone betting on the turn?

Re: 100NL; Arag with TP facing 1/2 pot on river vs. unknown
 

you gotta call.

Re: 100NL; Arag with TP facing 1/2 pot on river vs. unknown
 

i think check behind the turn is standard and is alot better than bet/folding here

Re: 100NL; Arag with TP facing 1/2 pot on river vs. unknown
 

[ QUOTE ]
i think check behind the turn is standard and is alot better than bet/folding here

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? Bet turn/check river behind is simply interchanging the action getting more value from draws no?

Re: 100NL; Arag with TP facing 1/2 pot on river vs. unknown
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i think check behind the turn is standard and is alot better than bet/folding here

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? Bet turn/check river behind is simply interchanging the action getting more value from draws no?

[/ QUOTE ]

when you check behind the turn, you get alot of value from villain betting into you on river, either bluffing a missed draw or betting some random pair. the assumption from the villain is that you Cbet then gave up. you will find alot of villains whose favorite line is call Cbet, check turn, then bet any river if PFR checked behind. these are the ones with the much higher river AF then the other streets.

i like to do this with a hand like this because it shows that a turn check behind isn't necessarily weak. it has the added metagame benefit of allowing marginal hands like underpairs, bottom pair or A hi to be checked down on the river in future, when we certainly cannot call a river bet with them

Re: 100NL; Arag with TP facing 1/2 pot on river vs. unknown
 

Right, so we'd like to bet the turn if he has a draw (which is obv. superior to letting him bluff a missed draw) {33-44 and diamonds: approx. 20 combinations}, and check if he has a pair {66-TT: 30 combinations}.

I think we have to do some math to figure out what is better here.

Re: 100NL; Arag with TP facing 1/2 pot on river vs. unknown
 

sh58 is spot on here.

in general i think we weight people's ranges too much toward draws, especially when we see two to a flush out. more often it's just a random pair or nothing.