AJ, no pair, WTF?
 

Villain is playing 17/11, this is our first tangle. I haven't done much postflop, though I have been very aggressive pre. I think he bet on the faster side if that makes a difference. Its procter998 on ftp. FWIW i think this should be a triple barrel, I can't recall why I checked, probably just not paying attention. Could he take a hand with showdown value and bluff/thin vbet it?


CO: $164.10
BTN: $813.10
SB: $795
BB: $358
UTG: $496.75
Hero (MP): $539

Pre-Flop: J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (MP)
UTG folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $14</font>, CO folds, BTN calls $14, 2 folds

Flop: ($34) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $24</font>, BTN calls $24

Turn: ($82) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Hero checks, BTN checks

River: ($82) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Hero checks, <font color="red">BTN bets $56</font>, Hero

anyone find a call... anyone find a raise?

Re: d
 

a c/r doesn't rep much but it's still a valid option. He is probably vbetting thin here, calling seems terrible.

Re: d
 

I would rather triple barrel this than CR the river. That said, I could see this working vs a decent player who can give you credit for a set / straight here. I think this type of player is just going to have KsQs and snap call you though...

Re: d
 

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anyone find a call... anyone find a raise?

[/ QUOTE ]
no, unless u dislike money

Re: d
 

Flop bet is pretty bad here.

EDIT: River c/r is really bad here since I bet you can't show me more than one HH when you slowplayed a straight against a 17/11 on this board

Re: d
 

yeah I c/f flop way before Id triple barrell this type of board

Re: d
 

yeah i thought about it and realized im cbetting too much and it leads to spots like this

Re: d
 

[ QUOTE ]
Flop bet is pretty bad here.

EDIT: River c/r is really bad here since I bet you can't show me more than one HH when you slowplayed a straight against a 17/11 on this board

[/ QUOTE ]


sometimes that might not matter, but yeah i agree against most opponents a cr is bad.

Re: d
 

Against what type of opponents would a river c/r be good?

Re: d
 

bad tags that cant make "big calls", they just look at their 1 pr and fold.

Re: d
 

im having trouble putting him a hand, i guess he can check the turn behind with really strong hands to be trappy or w/e but idk...

i think i fold here bc if he were gonna bluff you with draws i would imagine that he would bet the turn and river rather than check the turn and bet the river

so this really seems like a value bet and i would not try and CR him here

Re: d
 

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bad tags that cant make "big calls", they just look at their 1 pr and fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess, but if they literally look at this for 5 seconds they will see we rep nothing. I know there are multitablers who don't, though [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

Re: d
 

calling is fine

Re: d
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
bad tags that cant make "big calls", they just look at their 1 pr and fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess, but if they literally look at this for 5 seconds they will see we rep nothing. I know there are multitablers who don't, though [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

[/ QUOTE ]

I actually disagree with this because when I go for a turn c/r and miss I go for the river too, especially if draws miss (with sets, 2pr, and this situation prob AK)

Re: d
 

I think on these boards, you either have to triple barrel or just c/f. You're going to get called down by so many hands and if you just double barrel, villain is going to look at the board and be like lol, he has nothing and bet. Which is essentially true

Re: d
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
bad tags that cant make "big calls", they just look at their 1 pr and fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess, but if they literally look at this for 5 seconds they will see we rep nothing. I know there are multitablers who don't, though [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

[/ QUOTE ]

I actually disagree with this because when I go for a turn c/r and miss I go for the river too, especially if draws miss (with sets, 2pr, and this situation prob AK)

[/ QUOTE ]

On this board, I don't really like checking turn with a strong hand (sets for example). I rather double barrel and c/r river if all the draws missed.

That seems like the best way to put more money into the pot. Because I really don't think he'll call a c/r there enough on the turn since he'll have a weak hand most of the time.

Get what I mean?

Re: d
 

I think he will turn lots of draws into semi-bluffs on the turn and that will make my c/r more profitable than just a bet which he will call?

Re: d
 

would not call vs proctor here, but id bet flop for sure. iirc, he has a vvv high fold to cbet %; also he has overs + like 44 often enough to make the cbet profitable.

Re: d
 

In other news, this is a great river to c/r with a real hand.

Triple barrel would probably work, unless he clobbered the flop and lets you blow off your stack. Unfortunately this is a good flop for him to clobber (or semibluff raise you), so I prefer c/f above all.


As played fold river.

Re: AJ, no pair, WTF?
 

IS THAT REALLY A QUESTION? DO YOU REALLY HAVE THAT WRITTEN IN YOUR NOTEBOOK?? YOU SMELL ME GIRL, I SMELL LIKE MONEY.

Re: d
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
bad tags that cant make "big calls", they just look at their 1 pr and fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess, but if they literally look at this for 5 seconds they will see we rep nothing. I know there are multitablers who don't, though [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

[/ QUOTE ]

I actually disagree with this because when I go for a turn c/r and miss I go for the river too, especially if draws miss (with sets, 2pr, and this situation prob AK)

[/ QUOTE ]

Why the heck would you go for a turn c/r here with a made hand on the drawiest board ever?

Re: d
 

agaisnt an aggressive opponent why wouldn't you? or rather an opponent that you think floats/bets the turn here. Not saying this situation I think my opponent would, but in general if i have like KKK here and I feel hes gonna float me/semibluff, etc, I obviously lean towards a c/r. Does this make sense?

Re: d
 

[ QUOTE ]
agaisnt an aggressive opponent why wouldn't you? or rather an opponent that you think floats/bets the turn here. Not saying this situation I think my opponent would, but in general if i have like KKK here and I feel hes gonna float me/semibluff, etc, I obviously lean towards a c/r. Does this make sense?

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Ignoring the fact that all the sudden our 17/11/no history opponent is aggressive, I still don't like it. You're assumably going to bluff the turn K a good % of the time given your aggressive image, so he will discredit a turn bet even more. I would expect him make more moves if you bet rather than you checking, actually.

Most of his range is going to be either really strong, or a draw. If you have a great made hand, the money is going in anyway; if he has a draw, it can range from a pr + gutter to either a straight float to FD. All of his non-made hands don't want to get c/r and now have to either fold having good equity or continue putting a lot of money in as a dog, which points to him checking back a lot. It would then suck for any draw to get there, you bet, and get shoved on. Even though a c/r may be good from your perspective, your opponents hand range dictates that he will be doing everything is his power to prevent a c/r, unless he wants one.

Re: d
 

nonono not vrs this 17/11, just an aggressive opponent in general. my point was just saying if I decide to c/r some guy on the turn and miss, i'll prob go for it again on the river b/c it looks so suspicious

all of this is like a variance play, normally i just bet like everything b/c i double this so much

Re: d
 

[ QUOTE ]
nonono not vrs this 17/11, just an aggressive opponent in general. my point was just saying if I decide to c/r some guy on the turn and miss, i'll prob go for it again on the river b/c it looks so suspicious

all of this is like a variance play, normally i just bet like everything b/c i double this so much

[/ QUOTE ]

My post was addressing an aggressive player.

My point is that c/r the turn here is not a good play

Re: d
 

Right which is why the default should be to just bet, but say for whatever reason we end up on this river with KKK, do you bet or c/r?

Re: d
 

[ QUOTE ]
Right which is why the default should be to just bet, but say for whatever reason we end up on this river with KKK, do you bet or c/r?

[/ QUOTE ]

If by default you mean 99% of the time, then I agree. If we somehow get to the river with a set of kings, c/r them is good. You could conceivably c/r a lot worse, provided you don't have A hi [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

Re: d
 

If this guy was bad I might call or c/r, but proctor is halfway decent and can definitely be value betting a 9 here IMO.

Re: d
 

no i can not really see a call because u can not beat much

Re: d
 

he has nothing call

Re: d
 

if ur beaten it's by KTss

Re: AJ, no pair, WTF?
 

Im done after turn here,without reads it's pretty hard to call Ahigh here it's rarely good and if you CR it just looks like a spew

Re: d
 

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[ QUOTE ]
Right which is why the default should be to just bet, but say for whatever reason we end up on this river with KKK, do you bet or c/r?

[/ QUOTE ]

If by default you mean 99% of the time, then I agree. If we somehow get to the river with a set of kings, c/r them is good. You could conceivably c/r a lot worse, provided you don't have A hi [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

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I would just bet again because he's probably checking back most of his one pair hands that he calls us with if he's calling that turn, it's pretty rare for him to have a hand he can value bet (warranting a check-raise) unless he didn't raise some 2pr hand before, which i think would be pretty bad/unlikely in general. Maybe he can value bet some hands thin putting you on whatever, but he'd call with pretty much all those same hands and fold to a check-raise anyways and probably not bet a lot of them too.

cliff notes: just VB the river, don't check-raise

As usual, I would just bet the turn again, even with KKK, also your flop bet sizing is tiny and is going to get called by a lot, setting up a weird turn.