Poker Pro tables at Mohegan Sun
 

I was at Mohegan Sun on Saturday. While walking around with my wife I came upon a group of about half a dozen Poker Pro tables. They were roped off, unattended and had no signage that I could see. Anyone know if they're going to be the focus of the new poker room at Mohegan or if this was a one shot thing? Just curious.

Re: Poker Pro tables at Mohegan Sun
 

Well, their new room is supposed to have upwards of 40 poker tables. I doubt they are all going to be e-tables to be honest with you. They just arent' proven effective enough to be the only form of poker in a casino at this point in time.

Re: Poker Pro tables at Mohegan Sun
 

[ QUOTE ]
Well, their new room is supposed to have upwards of 40 poker tables. I doubt they are all going to be e-tables to be honest with you. They just arent' proven effective enough to be the only form of poker in a casino at this point in time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Glad to hear that. Although I haven't tried the Poker Pro tables, if I'm going to drive upwards of two hours to play poker in a casino I like to be able to handle the chips and cards. I'm willing to fade the dealer tips for that even if a lot of people aren't.

Re: Poker Pro tables at Mohegan Sun
 

[rumor] I heard that they will open a smaller, temporary room as early as next month which will have a few tables while the construction of the real poker room is completed. [/rumor]

Re: Poker Pro tables at Mohegan Sun
 

[ QUOTE ]
[rumor] I heard that they will open a smaller, temporary room as early as next month which will have a few tables while the construction of the real poker room is completed. [/rumor]

[/ QUOTE ]

If that is the case then I think that there's a good chance this is what I saw. They were in an area that looked like it used to hold other table games. I'll say this though, if that's the temporary "room" prepare for it to be awfully loud.

Re: Poker Pro tables at Mohegan Sun
 

[ QUOTE ]
Well, their new room is supposed to have upwards of 40 poker tables. I doubt they are all going to be e-tables to be honest with you. They just arent' proven effective enough to be the only form of poker in a casino at this point in time.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've been one of the harshest critics of eTables and ePoker on this forum, but it's intended as constructive criticism based on the many hours I've played at Hollywood Park and Commerce.

Done at least close to right eTables could very well succeed at Mohegan Sun. They have lots of traffic and a huge demand for poker not fully supplied by Foxwoods just a few miles away.

I doubt they will do it right though.

~ Rick

Re: Poker Pro tables at Mohegan Sun
 

[ QUOTE ]
I've been one of the harshest critics of eTables and ePoker on this forum, but it's intended as constructive criticism based on the many hours I've played at Hollywood Park and Commerce.

Done at least close to right eTables could very well succeed at Mohegan Sun. They have lots of traffic and a huge demand for poker not fully supplied by Foxwoods just a few miles away.

I doubt they will do it right though.

~ Rick

[/ QUOTE ]

The truth is that I like Mohegan Sun so much better than Foxwoods that I'd be likely to overcome my reservations and at least give the tables a try if they go with them. I might not like it but I really don't care for Foxwoods and only go there to play poker.

Re: Poker Pro tables at Mohegan Sun
 

[ QUOTE ]
Well, their new room is supposed to have upwards of 40 poker tables. I doubt they are all going to be e-tables to be honest with you. They just arent' proven effective enough to be the only form of poker in a casino at this point in time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Four Winds Casino in New Buffalo, MI has all PokerTek Electronic Poker Tables in their poker room. I play about once a month on Saturdays and have never seen the poker room full. With a $3 max rake the 19 table room should be packed on weekends. I like playing on the e-tables but at this point have no idea how they will do long term. One thing for sure the Casinos have to love them. I also heard Nevada has given the OK to PokerTek to have e-tables there. In Detroit I have heard e-tables have not done well and have all been pulled out.

Re: Poker Pro tables at Mohegan Sun
 

[ QUOTE ]

Four Winds Casino in New Buffalo, MI has all PokerTek Electronic Poker Tables in their poker room. I play about once a month on Saturdays and have never seen the poker room full. With a $3 max rake the 19 table room should be packed on weekends. I like playing on the e-tables but at this point have no idea how they will do long term. One thing for sure the Casinos have to love them. I also heard Nevada has given the OK to PokerTek to have e-tables there.

[/ QUOTE ]

Have those who play on them regularly experienced many technical problems? I'm just thinking of the inability of many casinos to properly maintain shuffle machines in their standard tables. I can't imagine the trouble they could conceivably have with full-fledged electronic tables.

Re: Poker Pro tables at Mohegan Sun
 

I heard that the attorney general of Connecticut has ruled that if there are no dealers at the game then it will be considered a slot machine and not a table game. If so, then the State will want a percentage of revenues in line with their slot machine agreement. They do not get any percentage of table game revenue.

I heard that initially the Mohegan Sun was going to pay a dealer to sit at the table and do nothing but then made a decision if they had to pay dealers they might as well have them deal.

My understanding of the latest is that Mohegan is going to have live tables and will not use the electronic ones. But until they go live, this is just a rumor.

Re: Poker Pro tables at Mohegan Sun
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Four Winds Casino in New Buffalo, MI has all PokerTek Electronic Poker Tables in their poker room. I play about once a month on Saturdays and have never seen the poker room full. With a $3 max rake the 19 table room should be packed on weekends. I like playing on the e-tables but at this point have no idea how they will do long term. One thing for sure the Casinos have to love them. I also heard Nevada has given the OK to PokerTek to have e-tables there.

[/ QUOTE ]

Have those who play on them regularly experienced many technical problems? I'm just thinking of the inability of many casinos to properly maintain shuffle machines in their standard tables. I can't imagine the trouble they could conceivably have with full-fledged electronic tables.

[/ QUOTE ]

The PokerTek people were at Four Winds the first few weeks and have said they are very durable. The few problems I have seen were quickly repaired.

Re: Poker Pro tables at Mohegan Sun
 

im assuming the etables will be raked pots at mohegan. does anyone know what they will do as far as rake on tables with dealers? will NL games be raked or timed. i feel time is more profitable for the casino and since there is no competition besides foxwoods they will keep it a time game as well. however if it is rake i will never play at foxwoods again.

Re: Poker Pro tables at Mohegan Sun
 

This is what I have been told by the training people at Mohegan, who have been trained to floor the Poker Pro games. They still need to be floored for cash and supervision. You will buy a card and load it with how much you want. And this is one of the floors jobs. I have not heard of anything about them being considered table or slot games by the state. They have about 9 or 10 games set up and ready to go. They will be fired up at the end of this week or early next.
This is not in place of the new poker room, I have been told that they will absolutely have the new poker room. They have had construction delays, so it looks like late summer '08. It will be going in the area of the convention area, by the no smoking section of the Casino of The Sky. Also they say even when the poker room goes in, they will be keeping the Poker Pro machines, thinking they will be good to attract new players. Not sure if they will be moved into the poker area or kept where they are now.
They have not advertised for poker dealers school as of yet, which will be the first sign of the opening getting close.

As far as what rakes or times will be, wayyyyy to early for anyone to know.

Paulie

Re: Poker Pro tables at Mohegan Sun
 

Ill be glad to play at Mohegan as long as it doesn't do that time charge bs like Foxwoods..For now Im stuck at donkeystone

Re: Poker Pro tables at Mohegan Sun
 

This article just came out:


PokerPro Article

Re: Poker Pro tables at Mohegan Sun
 

[ QUOTE ]
Well, their new room is supposed to have upwards of 40 poker tables. I doubt they are all going to be e-tables to be honest with you. They just arent' proven effective enough to be the only form of poker in a casino at this point in time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, the only way I envision e-tables ever catching on is for a casino to have nothing but with no choices to play with real cards/dealers.

Re: Poker Pro tables at Mohegan Sun
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Four Winds Casino in New Buffalo, MI has all PokerTek Electronic Poker Tables in their poker room. I play about once a month on Saturdays and have never seen the poker room full. With a $3 max rake the 19 table room should be packed on weekends. I like playing on the e-tables but at this point have no idea how they will do long term. One thing for sure the Casinos have to love them. I also heard Nevada has given the OK to PokerTek to have e-tables there.

[/ QUOTE ]

Have those who play on them regularly experienced many technical problems? I'm just thinking of the inability of many casinos to properly maintain shuffle machines in their standard tables. I can't imagine the trouble they could conceivably have with full-fledged electronic tables.

[/ QUOTE ]

At HP there used to be one table that regularly "tilted" when you banged your knee against it. The floor would have to reset it. The biggest problems were that every single new e-table player had to be taught how to play and this took a lot of time away from the game. If a casino is going to spread all e-tables they'll need to have a staffed training table.

Re: Poker Pro tables at Mohegan Sun
 

[ QUOTE ]
Actually, the only way I envision e-tables ever catching on is for a casino to have nothing but with no choices to play with real cards/dealers.

[/ QUOTE ]

I admit to being old enough that I learned to play poker primarily live but I could see the current crop of 19-20 year olds going for the etables from a comfort level standpoint. No need to learn how to cut chips or worry about folding out of turn </minor rant>

Re: Poker Pro tables at Mohegan Sun
 

I read on a german message board that some casinos there have set up electronic poker tables. One problem not mentioned is that without a dealer around some people constantly berate and insult other players making it very uncomfortable for recreational players to play. Maybe that's only stupid germans but i doubt it.

Re: Poker Pro tables at Mohegan Sun
 

I can primarily speak for the low limit games at Foxwoods but dealers being present doesn't necessarily eliminate that. I once sat next to a guy who swore at the two people on the other side of me for a solid half hour while the dealer did absolutely nothing.

Re: Poker Pro tables at Mohegan Sun
 

I think recreational players are less likely to join because there isn't a dealer there to question, not because of berating. It would be like wandering into a computer lab and asking to join a group of people playing Halo.

Re: Poker Pro tables at Mohegan Sun
 

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I think recreational players are less likely to join because there isn't a dealer there to question, not because of berating. It would be like wandering into a computer lab and asking to join a group of people playing Halo.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good Point.

What the cardrooms and eTable companies need to understand is that although many dealer and cardroom functions can be replaced in part with electronics many cardroom services require a significant amount of personal interaction.

Figuring out how to provide the correct amount and kind of personal interaction while maintaining some of the potential cost savings will be one of the major factors in order for eTables to succeed.

~ Rick

Re: Poker Pro tables at Mohegan Sun
 

Do you mean have a sort of floating dealer walking aroudn the e-tables who talks to the players? Sort of like the attendant at the self-checkout lines in a grocery store?

Re: Poker Pro tables at Mohegan Sun
 

[ QUOTE ]
Do you mean have a sort of floating dealer walking aroudn the e-tables who talks to the players? Sort of like the attendant at the self-checkout lines in a grocery store?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not really; perhaps more like a host that probably shouldn't play except to start games. Tough job done right.

Anyway, finding the right mix of people on the floor in a larger setup is going to take a lot of thought.

~ Rick

Re: Poker Pro tables at Mohegan Sun
 

[ QUOTE ]
Do you mean have a sort of floating dealer walking aroudn the e-tables who talks to the players? Sort of like the attendant at the self-checkout lines in a grocery store?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you are going to have nothing but e-tables in your poker room you need a cashier to convert cash/chips to credits, a person to sign up new players with a player card (or a bank of machines to do this so players don't have to wait too long), a runner to add cash/chips to their account when they bust so they don't have to leave the table, a host to sign players up for various games and explain options for games, or if they use electronic sign-up to alert them when a seat is open, a Floor to resolve disputes (there is typically an option to stop the game and call someone), reset games that crash, ask players if they want to move up to a higher level, help someone switch tables (not as easy as it seems. At HP you could have you account locked up for 20 minutes if you tried to switch and re buy), get SnG's going. You also need a dedicated training table with a real person. This will probably be a forever thing as there will always be new players who have no clue how to use an e-table.

Multiply these people by how large you want the room to be.

Re: Poker Pro tables at Mohegan Sun
 

[ QUOTE ]
If you are going to have nothing but e-tables in your poker room you need a cashier to convert cash/chips to credits, a person to sign up new players with a player card (or a bank of machines to do this so players don't have to wait too long), a runner to add cash/chips to their account when they bust so they don't have to leave the table, a host to sign players up for various games and explain options for games, or if they use electronic sign-up to alert them when a seat is open, a Floor to resolve disputes (there is typically an option to stop the game and call someone), reset games that crash, ask players if they want to move up to a higher level, help someone switch tables (not as easy as it seems. At HP you could have you account locked up for 20 minutes if you tried to switch and re buy), get SnG's going. You also need a dedicated training table with a real person. This will probably be a forever thing as there will always be new players who have no clue how to use an e-table.

Multiply these people by how large you want the room to be.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good points. Even if eTables make major inroads there will never be a point where every function in a cardroom is taken over by a machine. Many jobs would be lost, some would be created and there would be jobs with a mix of functions listed above (along with some not listed).

~ Rick

Re: Poker Pro tables at Mohegan Sun
 

IIRC Pro Poker cables can only spread hold'em variants. Does anyone know if the new tables can spread Omaha & Stud variants?

7 Stud is still pretty big up here in the north east.

Re: Poker Pro tables at Mohegan Sun
 

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IIRC Pro Poker cables can only spread hold'em variants. Does anyone know if the new tables can spread Omaha & Stud variants?

7 Stud is still pretty big up here in the north east.

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When there were e-tables at HP they spread O8 and PLO as well as LHE and NLHE. I'm sure Stud could be programmed.

Re: Poker Pro tables at Mohegan Sun
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
IIRC Pro Poker cables can only spread hold'em variants. Does anyone know if the new tables can spread Omaha & Stud variants?

7 Stud is still pretty big up here in the north east.

[/ QUOTE ]

When there were e-tables at HP they spread O8 and PLO as well as LHE and NLHE. I'm sure Stud could be programmed.

[/ QUOTE ]

So am I, but the last time I spoke to someone at Poker Tek they told me Stud was planned, but there was no time line.

Re: Poker Pro tables at Mohegan Sun
 

I think Stud would be very hard to play on these tables. I didn't think they had a display of players' hands big enough that other players could see them from across the table.

I have only seen a table once at HP though, and it was not even in use, so I couldn't tell a lot from looking at the table.

Re: Poker Pro tables at Mohegan Sun
 

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the last time I spoke to someone at Poker Tek they told me Stud was planned, but there was no time line.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the software development talk for when people have asked for a feature but no one has made plans to buy it if offered.

Trip Report: The tables are open
 

I was at Mohegan this weekend and got to be among the first to play on these. My reaction was mixed, here are some details:

--Rake is standard 10% up to $4 on limit tables, and $5 per 1/2 hr time charge on NL, which is disappointing.
--Took a few minutes to link players card to PokerPro acct, get a PIN, etc. before I could load $$$ onto it, relatively painless.
--There were definitely more people gawking at the tables then actually playing at them...the whole time I was there, there was one full 1/2NL table, and one 3/6 Limit (which I played) which fluctuated between 4-10 players (partly due to people doing goofy things like only loading $40 on their card). There were a lot of attentive floorpeople explaining how to sign up, helping people get used to the play, etc., and even a couple of PokerPro reps helping out.
--The software does support Omaha (no word on stud yet) and can do SnGs, there are even a few 2-seat tables for HU SnGs.
--Software is nice and fast; it is nice to get in a decent number of hands/hr playing live for a change. It's really about as fast as one-tabling online. One annoying thing in the limit software is that the "fold" button on the touch-screen is the only one that has to be double-tapped, but no one seems to get this, so you get a lot of people angrily jabbing at the button 5 seconds later thinking it didn't register.
--The software has options to turn auto-muck off/on, and when showing cards, you can show just one card if you like. There's also a "fold and show" button when facing a bet HU.
--There was definitely less talking among players than at a normal human-dealt table (possibly just due to the lack of downtime between hands). My wife, who usually feels intimidated when playing live, felt much more comfortable at an e-table.

Re: Trip Report: The tables are open
 

Can you ask to see a called hand?

Re: Trip Report: The tables are open
 

[ QUOTE ]
Can you ask to see a called hand?

[/ QUOTE ]

There's a option where you can see a summary of the last hand on your own screen, but IIRC they just show you the hand(s) that had to show down anyway.

Re: Trip Report: The tables are open
 

Atlast someone saying some nice things about E-tables. The main advantage (also to me the number one criteria for an enjoyable game) is the high number of hands per hour. Also theres no angling/cheating/suspicious movements on the table....just pure poker playing.
BTW I also play alot of live poker.

Re: Trip Report: The tables are open
 

[ QUOTE ]
I was at Mohegan this weekend and got to be among the first to play on these. My reaction was mixed, here are some details:

--Rake is standard 10% up to $4 on limit tables, and $5 per 1/2 hr time charge on NL, which is disappointing.
--Took a few minutes to link players card to PokerPro acct, get a PIN, etc. before I could load $$$ onto it, relatively painless.
--There were definitely more people gawking at the tables then actually playing at them...the whole time I was there, there was one full 1/2NL table, and one 3/6 Limit (which I played) which fluctuated between 4-10 players (partly due to people doing goofy things like only loading $40 on their card). There were a lot of attentive floorpeople explaining how to sign up, helping people get used to the play, etc., and even a couple of PokerPro reps helping out.
--The software does support Omaha (no word on stud yet) and can do SnGs, there are even a few 2-seat tables for HU SnGs.
--Software is nice and fast; it is nice to get in a decent number of hands/hr playing live for a change. It's really about as fast as one-tabling online. One annoying thing in the limit software is that the "fold" button on the touch-screen is the only one that has to be double-tapped, but no one seems to get this, so you get a lot of people angrily jabbing at the button 5 seconds later thinking it didn't register.
--The software has options to turn auto-muck off/on, and when showing cards, you can show just one card if you like. There's also a "fold and show" button when facing a bet HU.
--There was definitely less talking among players than at a normal human-dealt table (possibly just due to the lack of downtime between hands). My wife, who usually feels intimidated when playing live, felt much more comfortable at an e-table.

[/ QUOTE ]


I was there Friday night as well. Played 1/2 from about 11pm till 5am when it died out.I unexpectedly enjoyed it. I posted a few details as well in a small trip report bout 5 pages down.

Re: Trip Report: The tables are open
 

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Can you ask to see a called hand?

[/ QUOTE ]

ROTFLOL. VNH!

Re: Trip Report: The tables are open
 

[ QUOTE ]
Atlast someone saying some nice things about E-tables. The main advantage (also to me the number one criteria for an enjoyable game) is the high number of hands per hour. Also theres no angling/cheating/suspicious movements on the table....just pure poker playing.
BTW I also play alot of live poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

Here's an angle that was run many, many times on the e-tables at HP. In NLHE you always had to confirm a bet so players would press the AI button, the "chips" would flash out in front of him, and he'd gauge the reaction of the other player. He would then usually retract the bet and check or fold. It really distracted from the game.

Re: Trip Report: The tables are open
 

I have seen that...and I have tried that myself. But to me thats the same as fingering your own chips and counting out the big chips.
Atleast you cannot pick up the cards and pretend to throw them away and by judging the opponent's reaction whether to call or raise etc. Or other card handling related angles.

Re: Trip Report: The tables are open
 

[ QUOTE ]
--Rake is standard 10% up to $4 on limit tables, and $5 per 1/2 hr time charge on NL, which is disappointing.

[/ QUOTE ]

This actually sounds like a good deal for the 1/2 NL, given that hands/hr will be a lot higher than at a hand-dealt table.