Comment from my born again Christian Aunt
 

Recently my uncle had his best friend die suddenly in a car crash. Obviously this was very hard on him to cope with but he got through it. On the day after his friend died my aunt, his sister, was expressing her condolences when afterwords she states that it is too bad that he is gong to hell.

My uncle has been raised a christian is whole life and would never be best friends with anyone of questionable character.

Does a true christian accept what she says and not defend their deceased friend or do you become outraged at her remark?

Re: Comment from my born again Christian Aunt
 

that would be my last contact with that aunt if it were me

Re: Comment from my born again Christian Aunt
 

My uncle is a protestant minister and at the funeral of his aunt (and also my fathers aunt) he came up to my grandma (her sister is the aunt) and my dad and said something like "its too bad she is going to burn in Hell."

I thought that was pretty nice.

Re: Comment from my born again Christian Aunt
 

Wow, I'd be SOO freeking pissed if my sister said something like that to me after my best friend died. I'd end up in jail for sure, assuming she calls the cops after I break her nose.

Man I hate born agains.. such condescending a-holes.

Good luck with your aunt..

Re: Comment from my born again Christian Aunt
 

I've never heard a born again say something like that about someone who died. They might say something like that before someone dies as an interpretation of scripture. Its hard for me to believe they said that. She must not have studied the bible much or she'd know you leave the judging to a higher power. Maybe she wasn't smart. Smart people are usually tactful.

Smart people can make distinctions between God and the actions of people.

Its possible to defend your friend without getting outraged. 2 wrongs don't make a right.

Re: Comment from my born again Christian Aunt
 

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She must not have studied the bible much or she'd know you leave the judging to a higher power

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they aren't judging. god did the judging and communicated to them through scripture, general revelation, and the holy spirit concerning what his judgments are.

they're messengers, not judges.

Re: Comment from my born again Christian Aunt
 

[ QUOTE ]
I've never heard a born again say something like that about someone who died. They might say something like that before someone dies as an interpretation of scripture. Its hard for me to believe they said that. She must not have studied the bible much or she'd know you leave the judging to a higher power. Maybe she wasn't smart. Smart people are usually tactful.

Smart people can make distinctions between God and the actions of people.

Its possible to defend your friend without getting outraged. 2 wrongs don't make a right.

[/ QUOTE ]

How is that judging? If I murder someone, and you tell me that murder is a sin and I will have to answer for it, how is that judging?

Re: Comment from my born again Christian Aunt
 

Sephus and Vhawk01 if it pleases you both to be deliberately obtuse then be my guest. But she couldn't see into his heart and know every secret moment of his life, could she? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Comment from my born again Christian Aunt
 

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Sephus and Vhawk01 if it pleases you both to be deliberately obtuse then be my guest. But she couldn't see into his heart and know every secret moment of his life, could she? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

So if she had said "99% sure" its all better. Pretend she did.

Re: Comment from my born again Christian Aunt
 

[ QUOTE ]
Sephus and Vhawk01 if it pleases you both to be deliberately obtuse then be my guest. But she couldn't see into his heart and know every secret moment of his life, could she? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

NIV Mark 16:15 He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned."

Re: Comment from my born again Christian Aunt
 

[ QUOTE ]
Recently my uncle had his best friend die suddenly in a car crash. Obviously this was very hard on him to cope with but he got through it. On the day after his friend died my aunt, his sister, was expressing her condolences when afterwords she states that it is too bad that he is gong to hell.

My uncle has been raised a christian is whole life and would never be best friends with anyone of questionable character.

Does a true christian accept what she says and not defend their deceased friend or do you become outraged at her remark?


[/ QUOTE ] In a similar situation, what my friend did was switch from being Lutheran to Catholic.

Re: Comment from my born again Christian Aunt
 

[ QUOTE ]
In a similar situation, what my friend did was switch from being Lutheran to Catholic.

[/ QUOTE ]

rotflmmfao

Re: Comment from my born again Christian Aunt
 

[ QUOTE ]

In a similar situation, what my friend did was switch from being Lutheran to Catholic.
[ QUOTE ]
rotflmmfao

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[/ QUOTE ]

Well, you might roll on the floor and laugh your [censored] off. But my friend didn't wish to lose her faith when her daughter committed suicide and her life long Lutheren minister refused to preside at the final services on account of the deceased going to hell. Rather than give up Christianity , she decided to choose a less nutty version.

Re: Comment from my born again Christian Aunt
 

I always thought Catholics didn't accept suicide?

Re: Comment from my born again Christian Aunt
 

I just read something the other day about dealing with those who are grieving, and how people's awkwardness in these situations often leads them to say odd things. The thesis was that there are no right things to say in this situation, but that there are many wrong things to say. I think that this would qualify.

Re: Comment from my born again Christian Aunt
 

A lot of people seem to think that that she is a bitch for saying that. Although I'd be pissed if somebody said that in that situation, it seems to me (looking from the outside) that she was trying to be kind and give a sincere compliment. She truly felt bad for the stress the uncle would go through knowing somebody he cared about was being tormented for eternity. She probably thinks for sure that he is, and she herself might even feel upset about it, if she liked him as well--he just didn't believe the right things. Still, she really should have thought better about what to say.

Re: Comment from my born again Christian Aunt
 

I would definitely slap someone across the face if they said something like that to me.

Seriously how can your reaction to the idea that a human being of your acquaintance will be tortured for eternity be "boy, that's a shame"? It's so sociopathic I can't wrap my head around it at all.

Edit: btw this is in acccordance with a theory of mine that the majority of Christians don't actually believe the things they say they believe. They have their beliefs stashed away in a drawer in their brains marked "stuff I believe", but they don't believe it on an unconscious level, in the way they believe, say, that they will fall and hit the ground if they jump off the edge of a building. They think they believe it, but don't actually. If you could somehow do a controlled experiment, eg measuring galvanic skin potentials, I believe that you would see a much bigger response if you told a person that a friend of theirs still alive had been abducted and tortured than if you told them that a dead friend of theirs was in hell.

Re: Comment from my born again Christian Aunt
 

Obv the correct answer is 'Well atleast he'll have you to keep him company in a few years'. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Comment from my born again Christian Aunt
 

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If you could somehow do a controlled experiment, eg measuring galvanic skin potentials, I believe that you would see a much bigger response if you told a person that a friend of theirs still alive had been abducted and tortured than if you told them that a dead friend of theirs was in hell.

[/ QUOTE ]

Almost certainly, but we'd have to control for a compound effect, "oh, no, not here Too !".

luckyme

Re: Comment from my born again Christian Aunt
 

I don't see that it should make any difference, since the torture in hell is infinite. And when I say see a bigger response, I would expect to see like 10 times the response at least.

Re: Comment from my born again Christian Aunt
 

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[ QUOTE ]
Sephus and Vhawk01 if it pleases you both to be deliberately obtuse then be my guest. But she couldn't see into his heart and know every secret moment of his life, could she? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

NIV Mark 16:15 He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned."

[/ QUOTE ]

Did this Aunt exhibit love? You can't apply biblical knowledge in a superficial spiritless way. She probably was a "milk fed" Christian meaning she wasn't at a higher level of spirituality sort of a "baby" in Christ. People grow at different rates and to different heights in the spirit. You get out of spirituality what you put into it.

1 Corinthians 13 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)
Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society



1 Corinthians 13
Love
1If I speak in the tongues[a] of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames,[b] but have not love, I gain nothing.
4Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

8Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears. 11When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. 12Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

13And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

Re: Comment from my born again Christian Aunt
 

[ QUOTE ]
Recently my uncle had his best friend die suddenly in a car crash. Obviously this was very hard on him to cope with but he got through it. On the day after his friend died my aunt, his sister, was expressing her condolences when afterwords she states that it is too bad that he is gong to hell.

My uncle has been raised a christian is whole life and would never be best friends with anyone of questionable character.

Does a true christian accept what she says and not defend their deceased friend or do you become outraged at her remark?

[/ QUOTE ]


1. Heaven is what you make of it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZubVvvO914U

2. Heaven is probably nicer than being around his sister.

Re: Comment from my born again Christian Aunt
 

[ QUOTE ]
Recently my uncle had his best friend die suddenly in a car crash. Obviously this was very hard on him to cope with but he got through it. On the day after his friend died my aunt, his sister, was expressing her condolences when afterwords she states that it is too bad that he is gong to hell.

My uncle has been raised a christian is whole life and would never be best friends with anyone of questionable character.

Does a true christian accept what she says and not defend their deceased friend or do you become outraged at her remark?

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe the guy who died was an atheist & was proud of the fact that he was hell bound. If that's the case, then the aunt was only stating the truth.

Re: Comment from my born again Christian Aunt
 

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Maybe the guy who died was an atheist & was proud of the fact that he was hell bound. If that's the case, then the aunt was only stating the truth.

[/ QUOTE ]

Who cares if she believes that to be the truth? Saying such a thing to a grieving relative is being extremely hurtful for no good reason. Do you not see that?

Re: Comment from my born again Christian Aunt
 

Its actually rather amusing that Christians think they know who is going to hell or not, when the various christian sects can't even agree on what hell is, if it it all exists , who is there or if anyone is indeed going to suffer there at all, and if eternal suffering is indeed possible (even the catholic church which requires it believers to believe in hell is now saying that it may be that noone is ending up there).

Aaaaand anyways, if Christianity is true I think the judging of who is going to hell or not is pretty much up to God. Not old aunts or people on an interweb forum board.

Re: Comment from my born again Christian Aunt
 

Religion is a way for people to say mean things without guilt.

Re: Comment from my born again Christian Aunt
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Recently my uncle had his best friend die suddenly in a car crash. Obviously this was very hard on him to cope with but he got through it. On the day after his friend died my aunt, his sister, was expressing her condolences when afterwords she states that it is too bad that he is gong to hell.

My uncle has been raised a christian is whole life and would never be best friends with anyone of questionable character.

Does a true christian accept what she says and not defend their deceased friend or do you become outraged at her remark?

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe the guy who died was an atheist & was proud of the fact that he was hell bound. If that's the case, then the aunt was only stating the truth.

[/ QUOTE ]

One big L O L!

Re: Comment from my born again Christian Aunt
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Recently my uncle had his best friend die suddenly in a car crash. Obviously this was very hard on him to cope with but he got through it. On the day after his friend died my aunt, his sister, was expressing her condolences when afterwords she states that it is too bad that he is gong to hell.

My uncle has been raised a christian is whole life and would never be best friends with anyone of questionable character.

Does a true christian accept what she says and not defend their deceased friend or do you become outraged at her remark?

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe the guy who died was an atheist & was proud of the fact that he was hell bound. If that's the case, then the aunt was only stating the truth.

[/ QUOTE ]

So she was not out of line at all? Jesus would approve of her actions in this instance?

Re: Comment from my born again Christian Aunt
 

[ QUOTE ]

Obv the correct answer is 'Well atleast he'll have you to keep him company in a few years'. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

hahahaha.

Re: Comment from my born again Christian Aunt
 

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Maybe the guy who died was an atheist & was proud of the fact that he was hell bound. If that's the case, then the aunt was only stating the truth.

[/ QUOTE ]

Cmon, you surely aren't dumb enough to not see the problem here. There's a time and place for spouting what you believe to be truth, and truth is not a defence against rudeness. If a vegan came up and said "Serves the animal murderer right" after a meat-eating friend of mine had died, that would also earn them a slap in the face. btw, I find the position that people who kill animals deserve to die far less offensive than the position that unbelievers deserve to be tortured for all eternity.

Re: Comment from my born again Christian Aunt
 

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that would be my last contact with that aunt if it were me

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Re: Comment from my born again Christian Aunt
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Recently my uncle had his best friend die suddenly in a car crash. Obviously this was very hard on him to cope with but he got through it. On the day after his friend died my aunt, his sister, was expressing her condolences when afterwords she states that it is too bad that he is gong to hell.

My uncle has been raised a christian is whole life and would never be best friends with anyone of questionable character.

Does a true christian accept what she says and not defend their deceased friend or do you become outraged at her remark?

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe the guy who died was an atheist & was proud of the fact that he was hell bound. If that's the case, then the aunt was only stating the truth.

[/ QUOTE ]

So she was not out of line at all? Jesus would approve of her actions in this instance?

[/ QUOTE ]

Since you didn't tell us much about the guy who died, we have to assume that he wasn't Christian. The aunt was simply stating the truth as she knew it. I'm not defending her one way or the other...she's just stating fact. I agree that she could have been a little nicer about it without being blunt.

Re: Comment from my born again Christian Aunt
 

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she's just stating fact

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Stop trying to justify her actions by saying she is just telling it how it is. Racism and hatred veiled under the institution of religion is still hatred and racism.

Re: Comment from my born again Christian Aunt
 

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[ QUOTE ]
she's just stating fact

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Stop trying to justify her actions by saying she is just telling it how it is. Racism and hatred veiled under the institution of religion is still hatred and racism.

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How did racism get into this? He didn't say anything about racism and I doubt he meant anything about hatred. He is being radically truthful in the sense that no one knows when they will die so some religious people believe being extremely frank will shock others out of their complacency.

I know this seems callous and offends many people, but some people are really afraid of hell and they want to communicate urgency to inspire others to action. This is like the Old Testament prophets. They heard the urgency of God's message so strongly that they never sugarcoated their words.

Its the spectrum thing again. Where some people are on the "fearful" end of the spectrum and some people are on the "love" end, but the truth is still the truth, its just a matter of taking the right tack depending on the circumstances and individual.

But it sounds like this person spoke off the top of her head in an inappropriate situation and didn't use any tact, but anybody can be guilty of sticking their foot in their mouth.

If you want to hold all born agains responsible for 1 person's actions isn't that discrimination against a religious group?

Re: Comment from my born again Christian Aunt
 

A little more information about the people involved. My uncle is a farmer who was raised as a christian his whole life and raised 3 daughters all of good character. Married to a christian wife and never been divorced.

The aunt is on her second marriage but has raised 3 of her own children and been a step mom for 2 others. Decent mother but has not really had a career since her first marriage. Her first husband was a rich real estate developer and she got a nice chunk of change and moved into her own nice house. She remarried 5 years later and became a born again christain between marriages.

The man who died I do not have much information on but I do know he had a girlfriend. As I said before my uncle would never let a bad person come so close to his immediate family.

Re: Comment from my born again Christian Aunt
 

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Did this Aunt exhibit love?

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why change the subject? i thought we were talking about whether what she did is judging.

Re: Comment from my born again Christian Aunt
 

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I know this seems callous and offends many people, but some people are really afraid of hell and they want to communicate urgency to inspire others to action. This is like the Old Testament prophets. They heard the urgency of God's message so strongly that they never sugarcoated their words.

Its the spectrum thing again. Where some people are on the "fearful" end of the spectrum and some people are on the "love" end, but the truth is still the truth, its just a matter of taking the right tack depending on the circumstances and individual.


[/ QUOTE ]

so are you going to admit you were wrong about all that judging stuff?

Re: Comment from my born again Christian Aunt
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I know this seems callous and offends many people, but some people are really afraid of hell and they want to communicate urgency to inspire others to action. This is like the Old Testament prophets. They heard the urgency of God's message so strongly that they never sugarcoated their words.

Its the spectrum thing again. Where some people are on the "fearful" end of the spectrum and some people are on the "love" end, but the truth is still the truth, its just a matter of taking the right tack depending on the circumstances and individual.


[/ QUOTE ]

so are you going to admit you were wrong about all that judging stuff?

[/ QUOTE ]


John 7:24 (King James Version)

24Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

Re: Comment from my born again Christian Aunt
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I know this seems callous and offends many people, but some people are really afraid of hell and they want to communicate urgency to inspire others to action. This is like the Old Testament prophets. They heard the urgency of God's message so strongly that they never sugarcoated their words.

Its the spectrum thing again. Where some people are on the "fearful" end of the spectrum and some people are on the "love" end, but the truth is still the truth, its just a matter of taking the right tack depending on the circumstances and individual.


[/ QUOTE ]

so are you going to admit you were wrong about all that judging stuff?

[/ QUOTE ]


John 7:24 (King James Version)

24Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is a quote about good and bad judging.

we're arguing about judging or not judging.

once we decide that she was judging, then we can wonder if her judging was good or bad.

Re: Comment from my born again Christian Aunt
 

Judging is complicated Sephus. There is actually more than 1 type of judging.

Here research it for yourself. There are multiple articles.

http://www.rbc.net/search.aspx?term=judging

This one might particularly help you to understand the distinctions between types of judging:

http://www.rbc.org/odb/odb-02-24-06.shtml