So I guess Stars isn\'t asking to show hole cards at FT\'s anymore.
 

Usually they have always emailed you after a significant final table as far as I knew to ask permission to show hole cards.

This weeks Million they added a new disclaimer.

Sunday Million.

Any deal at the final table must leave at least $30,000 to be awarded to the winner.

The final table will be recorded and replayed, with all hole cards exposed.

So it isn't optional anymore apparently.

Edited to add that this disclaimer starts November 11th NOT this week.

Re: So I guess Stars isn\'t asking to show hole cards at FT\'s anymore.
 

i like it

Re: So I guess Stars isn\'t asking to show hole cards at FT\'s anymore.
 

Ew, wtf? I always said no, and never liked it.

Re: So I guess Stars isn\'t asking to show hole cards at FT\'s anymore.
 

[ QUOTE ]
i like it

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: So I guess Stars isn\'t asking to show hole cards at FT\'s anymore.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Ew, wtf? I always said no, and never liked it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well guess what.

They ARE internet poker.

Re: So I guess Stars isn\'t asking to show hole cards at FT\'s anymore.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ew, wtf? I always said no, and never liked it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well guess what.

They ARE internet poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess everyone will just have to see how awful I play if I ever make another FT like that... [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Edit: I guess it'll be good for fishy collusion, regardless, I'd rather not have it be required.

Re: So I guess Stars isn\'t asking to show hole cards at FT\'s anymore.
 

haha i forgot to email them back last week to tell them they could show mine

Re: So I guess Stars isn\'t asking to show hole cards at FT\'s anymore.
 

omfg they will know all my trikz!

Re: So I guess Stars isn\'t asking to show hole cards at FT\'s anymore.
 

Just keep movin all-in on ft bubble - maximises chance of not havin to show hole cards at ft OR making u chip lead, no downside!! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: So I guess Stars isn\'t asking to show hole cards at FT\'s anymore.
 

great now i can see what how you guys play
[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: So I guess Stars isn\'t asking to show hole cards at FT\'s anymore.
 

Meh, if I ever get my "one time" online in the Million I won't care that everyone can now see how much of a donk I really am.

Re: So I guess Stars isn\'t asking to show hole cards at FT\'s anymore.
 

Stupid imo.

I mean live they get all these television rights and stuff so its ok to be doing it, but why expose styles of play over the net?!

Online poker is becoming ridiculous, a good observant(datamining, etc.) can be a bigger winner than a good player nowadays!

Re: So I guess Stars isn\'t asking to show hole cards at FT\'s anymore.
 

seems totally wack to me, but I'll still keep trying to make a Sunday million FT.

Re: So I guess Stars isn\'t asking to show hole cards at FT\'s anymore.
 

[ QUOTE ]
a good observant(datamining, etc.) can be a bigger winner than a good player nowadays!

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL.

Re: So I guess Stars isn\'t asking to show hole cards at FT\'s anymore.
 

Lame.

If I want to play like a donk at a final table, I should be able to without everyone knowing.

Re: So I guess Stars isn\'t asking to show hole cards at FT\'s anymore.
 

Obviously, the trick is to play awfully at the final table so everyone carefully watching you gets horribly inaccurate data on you! Surely worth sacrificing 100k+ for.

Re: So I guess Stars isn\'t asking to show hole cards at FT\'s anymore.
 

This is rid stupid. I posted why a couple of weeks ago or so in a couple of the WCOOP replay FT threads.

Re: So I guess Stars isn\'t asking to show hole cards at FT\'s anymore.
 

not a big deal, imo.

Re: So I guess Stars isn\'t asking to show hole cards at FT\'s anymore.
 

My outrage is inversely proportional to my chances of making the final table of the sunday million.

So I'm pretty much ready to hoist the jolly roger and go pillaging amongst their women and children...

Re: So I guess Stars isn\'t asking to show hole cards at FT\'s anymore.
 

[ QUOTE ]
not a big deal, imo.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't you think its kind of wrong to tack on this requirement without giving anything in return to the players? What's the basis for being forced to reveal your hole cards in an online final table? Obviously it's a great marketing attraction for the site, so it'd be nice if they gave us something in return. Certainly they don't have to, and, since they hold all the strings, probably won't. In any case, it seems uncharacteristic and unfair of Stars to implement this sort of thing, and it doesn't sit well with me.

Re: So I guess Stars isn\'t asking to show hole cards at FT\'s anymore.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
not a big deal, imo.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't you think its kind of wrong to tack on this requirement without giving anything in return to the players? What's the basis for being forced to reveal your hole cards in an online final table? Obviously it's a great marketing attraction for the site, so it'd be nice if they gave us something in return. Certainly they don't have to, and, since they hold all the strings, probably won't. In any case, it seems uncharacteristic and unfair of Stars to implement this sort of thing, and it doesn't sit well with me.

[/ QUOTE ]

When you play live televised events what do you get?

Re: So I guess Stars isn\'t asking to show hole cards at FT\'s anymore.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
not a big deal, imo.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't you think its kind of wrong to tack on this requirement without giving anything in return to the players? What's the basis for being forced to reveal your hole cards in an online final table? Obviously it's a great marketing attraction for the site, so it'd be nice if they gave us something in return. Certainly they don't have to, and, since they hold all the strings, probably won't. In any case, it seems uncharacteristic and unfair of Stars to implement this sort of thing, and it doesn't sit well with me.

[/ QUOTE ]

When you play live televised events what do you get?

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you kidding?

Edit: Media bonus money

Re: So I guess Stars isn\'t asking to show hole cards at FT\'s anymore.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
not a big deal, imo.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't you think its kind of wrong to tack on this requirement without giving anything in return to the players? What's the basis for being forced to reveal your hole cards in an online final table? Obviously it's a great marketing attraction for the site, so it'd be nice if they gave us something in return. Certainly they don't have to, and, since they hold all the strings, probably won't. In any case, it seems uncharacteristic and unfair of Stars to implement this sort of thing, and it doesn't sit well with me.

[/ QUOTE ]

When you play live televised events what do you get?

[/ QUOTE ]

You get screwed!

I'm more-or-less serious, and I think being on tv is mostly useless and annoying. BUT, it does create possible opportunities for ancillary income, gives you the chance to express yourself (in whatever limited fashion, through poker) to an international audience and your own 15 seconds of fame, etc.

But the reason you pointed out still lends to the argument that Stars is doing the wrong thing...we know we get screwed with things in the live poker world, and Stars is supposed to be a more friendly and accommodating venue for poker.

Re: So I guess Stars isn\'t asking to show hole cards at FT\'s anymore.
 

Ok, i agree there should be some sort of compensation - but i dont think its a big deal if they dont.

Re: So I guess Stars isn\'t asking to show hole cards at FT\'s anymore.
 

I posted this like a month ago:
[ QUOTE ]

I don't think [the number of players in the mil would drop if they required showing it], but I see no point in doing it. Live 10ks require players to show their cards and in return the players get avenues to sponsorship deals, fame and the game gets huge tv coverage, so it makes sense to require participating players to give up their right to not disclose their cards for the greater good of the game, tournament and player.

PStars would be asking players to give up the same thing in return for basically nothing at all, it wouldn't get the players signed to any kind of deal any faster and even if it didn't turn players away it wouldn't make the fields bigger/fishier either (in fact you could make a very strong argument that knowing that each hand will be replayed to death and scrutinized by tons of people may make the FTs tougher); so why should we be forced to show our cards if we don't want to?

Requiring players show their cards under the current conditions would be silly.

[/ QUOTE ]

To reiterate to answer Badger:
If you showed up at the WSOP in 2003 or whenever it was and they said we're showing hole cards this year so ESPN will expand coverage huge, you as a player are receiving huge compensation (even if you didn't see it at the time, it would become obvious soon enough).
And still today there are 10ks that show hole cards and some that don't -- the ones that do, the ones that get tv coverage, are a lot bigger and a lot softer.
Do you really think the mil will get easier because of this? No way.
In fact, as mentioned, I think it might get tougher at the FT. I know some ppl might laugh at the idea that a replay is more of an incentive than playing for a quarter mil. But, just for example, maybe last week some busto mid stack guy who was so desperate to move up in the money might not play as weaktight/horribly given the knowledge that tons of strangers and all his poker playing buddies will see his cards on the replay.

Re: So I guess Stars isn\'t asking to show hole cards at FT\'s anymore.
 

[ QUOTE ]
haha i forgot to email them back last week to tell them they could show mine

[/ QUOTE ]

Sigh. I opened the replay yesterday hoping to see your cards, but instead I was forced to see Forcewithme fold every hand.

Re: So I guess Stars isn\'t asking to show hole cards at FT\'s anymore.
 

Another thing is that the amount of information you wind up agreeing to reveal at an edited tv final table is absolutely trivial compared to the info you give up by being forced to show every move you make in an online FT.

Re: So I guess Stars isn\'t asking to show hole cards at FT\'s anymore.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Another thing is that the amount of information you wind up agreeing to reveal at an edited tv final table is absolutely trivial compared to the info you give up by being forced to show every move you make in an online FT.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is especially true because, in theory, the hands shown on TV will be going to showdown and your cards would be revealed regardless in a lot of cases (or at least 1 of the players in the hand).

If you can see hole cards the entire time for every hand it really gives insight into how someone plays, TV edited FTs are quite a bit different.

Re: So I guess Stars isn\'t asking to show hole cards at FT\'s anymore.
 

But you don't have to play the Sunday Million in the first place....nobody makes you play it. If it bothers you that much then don't play.

Isn't there a $215 Sunday warm-up and also a $215 second-chance that have decent sized prize-pools also?

Seriously, I don't see what the big deal is.
Stars wants to take one or two tourneys and say, "For these tourneys we are going to show all the hole-cards in the replay" and then give you the choice of 8-zillion other tourneys where they do not have any kind of replay.

Re: So I guess Stars isn\'t asking to show hole cards at FT\'s anymore.
 

seeing every single hand...this is going to help numerous players with their endgame strategy.

Re: So I guess Stars isn\'t asking to show hole cards at FT\'s anymore.
 

[ QUOTE ]
But you don't have to play the Sunday Million in the first place....nobody makes you play it. If it bothers you that much then don't play.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's such a lame argument...of course Stars has us by the balls on this, but that doesn't make it right...we've been playing the Stars million for years with no stipulation about final table hole cards, and now they switch it up for their own good without providing any benefit to their customers/regulars.

Re: So I guess Stars isn\'t asking to show hole cards at FT\'s anymore.
 

If you dont like it go play on Absolute. I'm sure they wont show your hole cards.

Re: So I guess Stars isn\'t asking to show hole cards at FT\'s anymore.
 

Perhaps it's related to people getting anxious about SuperUser accounts? So Stars wants the FT of the biggest tournament to be beyond any suspicion.

Re: So I guess Stars isn\'t asking to show hole cards at FT\'s anymore.
 

[ QUOTE ]
If you dont like it go play on Absolute. I'm sure they wont show your hole cards.

[/ QUOTE ]
The thread went for over 24 hours before someone made an Absolute joke? What's the world coming to?

Re: So I guess Stars isn\'t asking to show hole cards at FT\'s anymore.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Don't you think its kind of wrong to tack on this requirement without giving anything in return to the players?

[/ QUOTE ]

they are putting up 1 million guaranteed

Re: So I guess Stars isn\'t asking to show hole cards at FT\'s anymore.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But you don't have to play the Sunday Million in the first place....nobody makes you play it. If it bothers you that much then don't play.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's such a lame argument...of course Stars has us by the balls on this, but that doesn't make it right...we've been playing the Stars million for years with no stipulation about final table hole cards, and now they switch it up for their own good without providing any benefit to their customers/regulars.

[/ QUOTE ]

I totally agree that this is a huge injustice to the great players who make it to the FT, I mean I'm pretty sure Jamie Gold would still be crushing if they didn't make him show his hole cards to all the world.

I really have no idea why people are getting upset by this...I think some of you guys just like to bitch no matter what.

First, this will help with multi-accounting, especially people taking over for others late in the tourney. It's very hard for Stars security to notice the subtle changes in the way someone is playing, whereas for experienced players, and often people who were playing with said person earlier, it's much easier. Things they would never notice are painfully obvious to you guys, and a lot of the time you've suspected stuff even without the hole cards. So, it will help with the integrity of the game, even if that isn't their intention.

Additionally, who is at a sunday million final table usually? A bunch of pretty bad players. So, for an experienced player, you'll be playing a pretty ABC game, since if you try to think above about the third level it's gonna be lost on everyone there anyway. I can see where this would be a problem if they did it in the 109r, or 1k or something, but here I don't think it would be giving up very much information about your game.

Re: So I guess Stars isn\'t asking to show hole cards at FT\'s anymore.
 

They're obviously partnering with stoxpoker to sell the videos. fkn stars

Re: So I guess Stars isn\'t asking to show hole cards at FT\'s anymore.
 

if they never showed any hole cards...i think jamie gold's game would've been respected more...and i think his later results would've been better as players would've feared him more for being unpredictable...instead of just knowing that he's a bluffing machine w/o much intricate thought and with some obv. physical/verbal tells.

Re: So I guess Stars isn\'t asking to show hole cards at FT\'s anymore.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
not a big deal, imo.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't you think its kind of wrong to tack on this requirement without giving anything in return to the players? What's the basis for being forced to reveal your hole cards in an online final table? Obviously it's a great marketing attraction for the site, so it'd be nice if they gave us something in return. Certainly they don't have to, and, since they hold all the strings, probably won't. In any case, it seems uncharacteristic and unfair of Stars to implement this sort of thing, and it doesn't sit well with me.

[/ QUOTE ]


yea, another misstep imo... when i chopped the sunday million i said no but that they should offer players some incentive to do so - they already rake 100k off of it, wanting a free marketing tool as well going too far.

Perhaps if everyone emailed them to object they would reconsider?

Re: So I guess Stars isn\'t asking to show hole cards at FT\'s anymore.
 

To you guys that want some sort of compensation, what do you think this should be?