Pocket 8s under the gun. Call or Raise?
 

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Preflop: Hero is UTG with 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. Hero???

Also, what is generally the best play to make with a hand that would be good to raise in late position but isn't a top 10 hand so that raising in early position wouldn't be standard. (AJo, another mid or low poker pair, etc.)

Re: Pocket 8s under the gun. Call or Raise?
 

If the table is very tight you can raise here, but I usually limp if I expect to get a couple of callers. Medium pocket pairs tend to be most profitable when you hit a set against several opponents and raising here tends to exclude that possibility. Many posters on this forum never open limp and this is a perfectly valid way to play. At the end of the day I doubt whether the difference in results between limping and raising is that big.

Re: Pocket 8s under the gun. Call or Raise?
 

I fold 88 UTG. I never open limp. If table was super tight I might raise it, but it's mostly a fold. I am a very tight player in EP.

Re: Pocket 8s under the gun. Call or Raise?
 

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I fold 88 UTG. I never open limp. If table was super tight I might raise it, but it's mostly a fold. I am a very tight player in EP.

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Too tight.

Re: Pocket 8s under the gun. Call or Raise?
 

I usually limp it. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Pocket 8s under the gun. Call or Raise?
 

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I fold 88 UTG. I never open limp. If table was super tight I might raise it, but it's mostly a fold. I am a very tight player in EP.

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Too tight.

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Word

Re: Pocket 8s under the gun. Call or Raise?
 

It depends on the table dynamic.. If the table is tight Raise. If the table is loose passive limp and hope for a lot of callers and a set. Folding this hand is losing money imo.

Re: Pocket 8s under the gun. Call or Raise?
 

Well, there's no formula for these types of hands, because it depends on table dynamics. From memory:

Middle Limit Hold'em recommends to fold the hand. Why? Because (apart from being somewhat of a weak tight strategy) it is written for a game in which people play tight, but don't raise enough pre-flop (common for B&M), but are no slackers post-flop

SSHE recommends to limp in with any low-mid PP in early position. They defend the play of even limping with 22-55 that the games are so loose passive that the set will pay off big. Well, if you're gonna limp in with 22, you'll certainly limp in with 88.

Online there has been an aggressive revolution. I'm sure Stox would recommend to raise this one up. Their book is SH, though, so UTG is only 3 off the button. But a raise is definetly in order if you got a table of weak tighties, maybe bonus hoarders multitablers. Just know that you'll be OOP playing this hand against a likely better caller. You'll mostly end up with something like second or third pair and have to be able to play post-flop well.

Hope that helps.

Re: Pocket 8s under the gun. Call or Raise?
 

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SSHE recommends to limp in with any low-mid PP in early position.

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Only in loose games (which it defines as 6-8 players per flop on average). In tight games (which it defines as 3-5 players per flop on average), it recommends playing 77+ in early position.

Re: Pocket 8s under the gun. Call or Raise?
 

raise fold limp do w/e you want

Re: Pocket 8s under the gun. Call or Raise?
 

I normally just fold this UTG in full ring.

Re: Pocket 8s under the gun. Call or Raise?
 

:g:
Sometimes I raise, sometimes I limp. I dont fold because I dont like folding. If there is an agressive isoraiser to my left I would also consider LRR.

Re: Pocket 8s under the gun. Call or Raise?
 

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I'm sure Stox would recommend to raise this one up. Their book is SH, though, so UTG is only 3 off the button. But a raise is definetly in order if you got a table of weak tighties, maybe bonus hoarders multitablers.

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Stox's book includes a preflop raising chart in which he recommends 99 as the smallest pocket pair you should raise from UTG in a 10-handed game. I think a call is gonna be better than a raise most of the time.

Re: Pocket 8s under the gun. Call or Raise?
 

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I normally just fold this UTG in full ring.

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too tight at the micros.

Re: Pocket 8s under the gun. Call or Raise?
 

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I normally just fold this UTG in full ring.

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too tight at the micros.

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Nope, sorry. The days when you can just limp every pocket pair UTG are long over.

I raise this sometimes, and I do limp sometimes when I'm at an unusually passive table. But if you're playing this hand every single time you get it dealt to you UTG, that's a leak.

Re: Pocket 8s under the gun. Call or Raise?
 

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But if you're playing this hand every single time you get it dealt to you UTG, that's a leak.

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What are you basing this on? Datamining, or theoretical/computer simulations?

Re: Pocket 8s under the gun. Call or Raise?
 

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The days when you can just limp every pocket pair UTG are long over.

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Nobody in this thread has advocated limping EVERY pocket pair. We're talking about 88.

Re: Pocket 8s under the gun. Call or Raise?
 

I tend to limp about 70%, fold about 20%, and raise about 10% - it all depends on the table and who is sitting where.

FWIW I am slightly profitable over the last 18,000 hands with 77+ utg. Lower pp I tend to fold, almost never raise, and maybe limp 20% of the time if it's the right kind of table.

Re: Pocket 8s under the gun. Call or Raise?
 

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I normally just fold this UTG in full ring.

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too tight at the micros.

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Nope, sorry. The days when you can just limp every pocket pair UTG are long over.

I raise this sometimes, and I do limp sometimes when I'm at an unusually passive table. But if you're playing this hand every single time you get it dealt to you UTG, that's a leak.

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Not at .25/.50 on Stars at the tables I've been playing at.

Obviously there are tables and situations where you would fold this UTG, but they are few and should be far between. Table selection is your friend.