25/50 6max play bad = tough river decision
 

i dont know much about villain other than that he is a 2+2er who i think plays more tourneys and PLO cash than NL cash. we haven't really tangled much so far, i think this is the 2nd time i've 3bet him. i've been pretty active over about 40 hands at the table.

Full Tilt Poker, $25/$50 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 5 Players
LegoPoker Hand History Converter

Hero (SB): $6,018.50
BB: $5,000
UTG: $4,935.50
CO: $3,546
BTN: $6,279

Pre-Flop: Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (SB)
2 folds, <font color="red">BTN raises to $170</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $575</font>, BB folds, BTN calls $405

Flop: ($1,200) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Hero checks, <font color="red">BTN bets $750</font>, Hero calls $750

Turn: ($2,700) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Hero checks, BTN checks

River: ($2,700) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Hero checks, <font color="red">BTN bets $2,200</font>

Re: 25/50 6max play bad = tough river decision
 

meh I hate to say it but this seems mighty player dependent.. the size of his preflop calling range and his tendencies to bluff rivers are pretty vital here..

Without a read I fold..

Re: 25/50 6max play bad = tough river decision
 

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meh I hate to say it but this seems mighty player dependent.. the size of his preflop calling range and his tendencies to bluff rivers are pretty vital here..

Without a read I fold..

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I think it has more to do with their flop betting range. A lot of people very very routinely check back AJ/AQ here and will fire with JTs or 88 or 89s a lot.

Re: 25/50 6max play bad = tough river decision
 

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meh I hate to say it but this seems mighty player dependent.. the size of his preflop calling range and his tendencies to bluff rivers are pretty vital here..

Without a read I fold..

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Re: 25/50 6max play bad = tough river decision
 

Wow this is a sucky spot. Im not really sure what to do here. Im really curious what the top players here think on this hand..

yeh i think this is player and history-dependant.

Re: 25/50 6max play bad = tough river decision
 

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I think it has more to do with their flop betting range. A lot of people very very routinely check back AJ/AQ here and will fire with JTs or 88 or 89s a lot.

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Re: 25/50 6max play bad = tough river decision
 

I'd rather call the turn than the river.

Re: 25/50 6max play bad = tough river decision
 

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I think it has more to do with their flop betting range. A lot of people very very routinely check back AJ/AQ here and will fire with JTs or 88 or 89s a lot.

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Very very true.

Re: 25/50 6max play bad = tough river decision
 

Anyone put a blocker bet on the river of $1k?

Re: 25/50 6max play bad = tough river decision
 

i would call

Re: 25/50 6max play bad = tough river decision
 

if he's not betting 88 here he's probably the biggest nit ever

Re: 25/50 6max play bad = tough river decision
 

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if he's not betting 88 here he's probably the biggest nit ever

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What does that have to do with anything?

Re: 25/50 6max play bad = tough river decision
 

wow. not being harsh, but wow wtf did you do with this hand...

i think your rr pre is a little on the large side but it's kind of trivial.

i'd rather c/f the flop than play the hand with the apparent intent you had for the rest of the hand, but if i did check the flop i'd be inclined to make it $2300.

as played i think it's a fold w/o a good read. call and see AT or AJ a lot. but if this is a player you have a history with and you want to go to showdown bet $1500ish on the river, but not sure how much i like that line, just throwing it out there.


-tex

Re: 25/50 6max play bad = tough river decision
 

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wow. not being harsh, but wow wtf did you do with this hand...

i think your rr pre is a little on the large side but it's kind of trivial.

i'd rather c/f the flop than play the hand with the apparent intent you had for the rest of the hand, but if i did check the flop i'd be inclined to make it $2300.

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whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat

Re: 25/50 6max play bad = tough river decision
 

CRAI would be rather cool.

Re: 25/50 6max play bad = tough river decision
 

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CRAI would be rather cool.

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haha

Re: 25/50 6max play bad = tough river decision
 

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CRAI would be rather cool.

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I think you're more likely to get called by a worse hand than fold out a better one, so yeah... but not really.

Kirk

Re: 25/50 6max play bad = tough river decision
 

Without a very specific reason to do so, I absolutely hate c/c on the flop w/ ur hand.

I'd fold the river

Re: 25/50 6max play bad = tough river decision
 

fold river looks like too much of a value bet

Re: 25/50 6max play bad = tough river decision
 

call with fist pump?

Re: 25/50 6max play bad = tough river decision
 

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Without a very specific reason to do so, I absolutely hate c/c on the flop w/ ur hand.

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can you elaborate?

Re: 25/50 6max play bad = tough river decision
 

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Without a very specific reason to do so, I absolutely hate c/c on the flop w/ ur hand.

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can you elaborate?

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thats what i was thinking, i think the flop cc is pretty standard with this type of hand

Re: 25/50 6max play bad = tough river decision
 

Flop ch-call seems standard, but it creates very ugly turn/river situation.

Re: 25/50 6max play bad = tough river decision
 

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CRAI would be rather cool.

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such an hsnlesque post [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Re: 25/50 6max play bad = tough river decision
 

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Without a very specific reason to do so, I absolutely hate c/c on the flop w/ ur hand.

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can you elaborate?

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thats what i was thinking, i think the flop cc is pretty standard with this type of hand

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I know it's "standard" in that a lot of people here do it. But I just think that the "all better hands call, all worse hands fold" is untrue to some extent.

More importantly however, your hand becomes completely face-up, and you are given virtually no information about his hand. Specifically, if villian has Ax here, he is more likely to get two bets out of you (maybe even three) when you check the flop. I think once you bet the flop and he calls, there is a good chance he isn't betting a weak suited ace on the turn or river (although this obv. depends on the board texture). Although I generally do not mind puttng myself in difficult siuations given they are the most +EV, in this specific spot I think betting &gt; c/f &gt; c/c

Samo had a great thread awhile back that talks about how it's ok for opponents to know what your hand is as long as you play your hand correctly. While I don't exactly disagree with this statement, this is so much easier said than done. Let's face it, the typical 25/50NL player will often make your life miserable when he can put you on a very tight range.

I would much rather take this line w/ a hand like AQ from time to time and have him VB himself to death if he VBs too thin. I also think that taking this line w/ AQ is good for metagame type [censored] too.

Re: 25/50 6max play bad = tough river decision
 

river is a fold unless your opponent is very good

Re: 25/50 6max play bad = tough river decision
 

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river is a fold unless your opponent is very good

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pretty much what i think

Re: 25/50 6max play bad = tough river decision
 

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river is a fold unless your opponent is very good or bad

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Re: 25/50 6max play bad = tough river decision
 

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river is a fold unless your opponent is very good

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Totally agree.

Re: 25/50 6max play bad = tough river decision
 

I dont get it, given the information how can we possibly fold here? What better plays like this? Not saying he cant play better like this but don't you think he can often showup with worse?

Re: 25/50 6max play bad = tough river decision
 

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I dont get it, given the information how can we possibly fold here? What better plays like this? Not saying he cant play better like this but don't you think he can often showup with worse?

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OPs hand is faceup and iv villain is competent he is valuebetting any ace here on the river. those are the better hands that play like this.

Re: 25/50 6max play bad = tough river decision
 

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What better plays like this?

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perhaps AJ [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]?

Re: 25/50 6max play bad = tough river decision
 

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river is a fold unless your opponent is very good or bad, or average, but just bluffs in this spot

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