I think I\'m a Donkey! final table Blunder!??
 

so this is what happened! gonna give you as much info as i can.
110 players start with 20k in chips.(2.2million chips in play!) 15 min blinds , blinds went roughly like this 100-200, 200-400, 300-600, 400-800, 500-1000 600-1200, 800-1600, 1k-2k, 1.5k -3k, 2k-4k,2.5k-5-k 3k-6k, 4k-8k, 5k-10k, 6k-12k, 8k-16k, 10k-20k, 15k-30k, 20k-40k, 25k-50k, 30k-60k, and thats as far as i got. My table image was of a very solid player, I lost few pots all night and only showed monster when i had too. So heres what i did. 9 players left, i have 300k UTG. Big stack is BB with about 400k,lots of short stacks, including myself in my opinion. So with blinds of 25k and 50k with 30k and 60 just a few minutes away. I have KQ offsuit UTG(ya i know that was my first problem!) and i pushed my 300k. It folded to the BB who went inot the tank for a few min and called, showing AKo. A and a Q on the flop and i was history. So did i make a bad play? i could have folded and tried to steal blinds once i had position, leaving me with 225k stack and 30k-60k blinds. I almost had the entire table fold. I dunno, I could have just folded my way into more $$$. what do you guys think? I already know, FOLD YOU DONKEY! Great now i just answered my own question!!!!!!

Post deleted by Mat Sklansky
 

Re: I think I\'m a Donkey! final table Blunder!??
 

No idea what the above poster is calling you an idiot for, because his advice is awful and just plain wrong. "Play smaller pots" in this example is out of the question, with these stack sizes it's jam or fold. If you're playing KQ you need to maximize your fold equity and shove. What, you're going to raise half your stack to open? WHAT?

You were all shortstacked with the blinds coming next hand. KQ even UTG seems fine to me for a push, as was the AK call by the BB, unless the payout structure is something strange.

Maybe of of the high-speed tourney or SNG studs can break it down for you a little more. Can you tell us the prize structure so we can check out the ICM side of it?

Re: I think I\'m a Donkey! final table Blunder!??
 

The person who called you an idiot is clueless. You have 5 big blinds, so KQo is clearly a shove preflop in any position. In fact, your mistake in this case would likely have happened earlier when on the button, CO or HJ, where you should be shoving with any two cards when it was folded to you.

Re: I think I\'m a Donkey! final table Blunder!??
 

You were right to shove under those circumstances IMHO. I agree for the reasons previously given. You were at the "Whoever Catches The Flop" stage and BB just happened to to hit it higher.

Re: I think I\'m a Donkey! final table Blunder!??
 

shoving is fine, first reply was made by a drooler pay him no mind

Re: I think I\'m a Donkey! final table Blunder!??
 

1st $2,100. 6th $300.
2nd 1,000. 7th 250.
3rd 500. 8th 230.
4th 400. 9th 220.
5th 350. 10th 200.

this is the pay out for this tourny!!

Re: I think I\'m a Donkey! final table Blunder!??
 

1st $2,100. 6th $300.
2nd 1,000. 7th 250.
3rd 500. 8th 230.
4th 400. 9th 220.
5th 350. 10th 200.

Re: I think I\'m a Donkey! final table Blunder!??
 

You made the correct play. If you don`t push KQ UTG, you`re looking at only 250k left when the BB hits you. KQ is in the top 10% of the total hand range, you can`t expect to get something better in the BB or SB. If you fold both of those you`re down to 225k and will have much less fold equity and chances are you will be forced into pushing trash within the next orbit.

Folding yourself into more money means an extra $10-$30 max. By making the play that you did, you give yourself the chance to win $100+ more than you would have.

I`m assuming the person that called you an idiot is waiting around for Ax or pocket pairs. If you play like this, you can not win a tournament.

Re: I think I\'m a Donkey! final table Blunder!??
 

[ QUOTE ]
yeah ur an idiot BUT learn from your mistakes.

#2 try playing smaller pots and taking atvantage of bad players with medicore hands like kq.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are wrong, very wrong. His M was around 4-5 and this is an insta open shove with kq. OP may the correct play regardless of his results. It takes agression to win tournaments. People playing weak, blinding off, limping, etc are not consistent winners. Break even at best.

Good play OP!

Re: I think I\'m a Donkey! final table Blunder!??
 

Thanks to all of you for you input, its greatly appreciated! Good luck to all of you and thanks again!!!!

Re: I think I\'m a Donkey! final table Blunder!??
 

[ QUOTE ]
The person who called you an idiot is clueless. You have 5 big blinds, so KQo is clearly a shove preflop in any position. In fact, your mistake in this case would likely have happened earlier when on the button, CO or HJ, where you should be shoving with any two cards when it was folded to you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Any 2? I know you have to shove pretty loose in those spots but I think I'd want to fold total trash like 72o.

Post deleted by Mat Sklansky
 

Re: I think I\'m a Donkey! final table Blunder!??
 

[ QUOTE ]
OBV SARCASM his M was 4 lol derrrrrrr

[/ QUOTE ]

the old "obviously it was sarcasm" defense lol

Re: I think I\'m a Donkey! final table Blunder!??
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The person who called you an idiot is clueless. You have 5 big blinds, so KQo is clearly a shove preflop in any position. In fact, your mistake in this case would likely have happened earlier when on the button, CO or HJ, where you should be shoving with any two cards when it was folded to you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Any 2? I know you have to shove pretty loose in those spots but I think I'd want to fold total trash like 72o.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're praying you don't get called, not shoving because you think you have a good hand. When you're down to 5 big blinds, you shove everything in late position once if it's folded to you.

Re: I think I\'m a Donkey! final table Blunder!??
 

Incorrect, and weak tight. OP made the right play.

Re: I think I\'m a Donkey! final table Blunder!??
 

Your correct to shove. A good player plays to win, not to get in the money. Just in the money is a hand full of pennys relative to the higher places. So many try to fold thier way to prosperity.

Dave

Re: I think I\'m a Donkey! final table Blunder!??
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The person who called you an idiot is clueless. You have 5 big blinds, so KQo is clearly a shove preflop in any position. In fact, your mistake in this case would likely have happened earlier when on the button, CO or HJ, where you should be shoving with any two cards when it was folded to you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Any 2? I know you have to shove pretty loose in those spots but I think I'd want to fold total trash like 72o.

[/ QUOTE ]

No. Shoving with any 2 is +EV. "Big Stack" has an M of less than 6. Thus opponents are likely to fold to his shove > 80% of the time, and when called, 72o less than a 5:2 dog to the caller's range. (72o beats AKo about 1/3 of the time)

Re: I think I\'m a Donkey! final table Blunder!??
 

You have to count on a huge amount of folding equity or a lot of dead money in order for shoving with any 2 in the CO to be correct. When there is so little difference between 9th place and 6th place, and many of the players have even shorter stacks, you will often not have that folding equity, and shoving with any 2 will often drop your M further. Indeed, one of the ways you could end up with an M of 5 is if you started with a larger stack, and kept pushing into short stacks.

Over and over, people try to ignore that playing with a short stack (here, one that is greater than the table average) is a normal part of tournament poker, not a sign of shamefully bad play. Good players should often end up with short stacks at some point, and if your goal is to win money, you should know how to play a short stack well.

Re: I think I\'m a Donkey! final table Blunder!??
 

If you cared mostly about winning the tournament, pushing was the right move.

If you wanted to move up in the money, you had an above average chip stack and with high blinds you could easily have waited out some others.

Re: I think I\'m a Donkey! final table Blunder!??
 

No, pushing is correct in either case. The size of his chip stack compared to the other players matters, but not as much as his stack relative to the blinds. He's in pretty bad shape and needs to get it in ASAP with a hand this strong.

Re: I think I\'m a Donkey! final table Blunder!??
 

Pushing is 100% correct. Waiting it out earns you $20-50 more. Playing strong hands puts you in a great position to win $1000+.