floor ruling at foxwoods during 1500
 

this hand went down during the 50/100 level of today's 1500. was curious about this floor ruling.

action folds to the HJ+1 who raises to 300. hj quickly calls. while i'm peeking down at my cards, the btn (who said it was his first poker tournament and i fully believed him) tosses 600 chips in the pot, raising out of turn.

i call the floor over for a ruling. what is the correct ruling?

Re: floor ruling at foxwoods during 1500
 

If you call or fold, he should be forced to make this raise.
If you raise, he can do whatever

Re: floor ruling at foxwoods during 1500
 

If you call or fold, button must raise. If you raise, button can fold, call or raise.

Edit: I think there was a thread about a spot like this a while back in which Johnny Hughes refused to state the ruling in advance so as not to influence the action by the ruling. A bunch of people disagreed with him.

Re: floor ruling at foxwoods during 1500
 

yeah, floor ruled the raise to 600 was "void" because he acted out of turn, no matter what my action was. the 3 live clown foxwoods regulars at the table basically jumped down my throat when i asked the floor for a ruling after the 3 of them and the dealer told me what the ruling was going to be, but i wanted to hear to from the floor myself.


anyway, if you're playing a WPF event at foxwoods, free reign on angleshooting by making 3-bets that you dont have to honor as a long as you act out of turn!

Re: floor ruling at foxwoods during 1500
 

I don't understand how Foxwoods floorpeople should be allowed to not know correct rulings and continuously enforce incorrect rulings? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Re: floor ruling at foxwoods during 1500
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't understand how Foxwoods floorpeople should be allowed to not know correct rulings and continuously enforce incorrect rulings? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

The best part about it is that they are almost always complete [censored] about it as well.

Re: floor ruling at foxwoods during 1500
 

Sometimes I feel like no one knows less about tournament rules than directors at poker tournaments at major casinos. I swear that most rulings you could just flip a coin to see if they are going to get it right.

Re: floor ruling at foxwoods during 1500
 

2 days ago some dude checked behind on river with the nuts.

All hilarity ensued, final ruling : It's fine.

Re: floor ruling at foxwoods during 1500
 

[ QUOTE ]
Sometimes I feel like no one knows less about tournament rules than directors at poker tournaments at major casinos. I swear that most rulings you could just flip a coin to see if they are going to get it right.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was gonna make a post about how this isnt an uncommon trend among all TDs, but then i realized that theres a lot of really talented tournament directors and really Foxwoods is just a sh*thole.

Re: floor ruling at foxwoods during 1500
 

In Ireland the ruling would be that the 600 chips MUST stay in the pot no matter what happens. You would now be able to do whatever you wanted. If you raised to 2000 for example, it would be 1400 to call for the button. This is specifically designed to remove scope for angleshooting.

Or you could decide to call the 300; and button would be forced to make a raise to 600. He has no other option. And the action continues normally in turn to those who still have cards with it 600 to play.

In my opinion the ruling you received is ridiculous. In any case, I think the real problem is the fact that from casino to casino; tour to tour; country to country everyone is playing off a different rule book.

Re: floor ruling at foxwoods during 1500
 

This should be moved or crossposted to B&M. You will get better comments there from floormen and dealer regulars.

Re: floor ruling at foxwoods during 1500
 

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I don't understand how Foxwoods floorpeople should be allowed to not know correct rulings and continuously enforce incorrect rulings? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

There is no "correct" ruling at Foxwoods. The floor makes their decision on what they feel is right and popular that day. this is true in cash games as well.

Re: floor ruling at foxwoods during 1500
 

[ QUOTE ]
In Ireland the ruling would be that the 600 chips MUST stay in the pot no matter what happens. You would now be able to do whatever you wanted. If you raised to 2000 for example, it would be 1400 to call for the button. This is specifically designed to remove scope for angleshooting.



[/ QUOTE ]

And yet even this rule opens the door for an angle. If a short-stacked BB wants to play the hand and wants to limit the number of opponents, he can deliberately play out of turn at any point.

This is why my preference for these situations is a judgement call, as follows :

- If it's a genuine mistake, player is given his bet back, warned and action proceeds as if nothing had happened.

- If it was a deliberate angle, player is taken out the back and given a good stomping.

As for me, I'm so glad I play 99% of my tournaments online.