Showing One Card (after everyone has folded)
 

The other night at Canterbury

Player raises on the river -- everyone folds. Winner then shows one card (an ace) meaning he had paired the board. Another player said -- you have to show both cards, and the dealer agreed. Player showed the second card, and the game went on without incident.

This obviously ISN'T 'show one show all'. The player next to me said he thought it was some kind of anti-taunting rule.

I'd never really thought about it, but is this rule the norm? Is there any other rationale?

The best I can come up with is that so many people misinterpret SOSA, that places make it the rule in this situation to keep the game moving.

Re: Showing One Card (after everyone has folded)
 

I believe this is a misinterpretation of show one show all. I don't think you are forced to show the other card if you show one by any rule.

Re: Showing One Card (after everyone has folded)
 

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I believe this is a misinterpretation of show one show all. I don't think you are forced to show the other card if you show one by any rule.

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No. It is a separate rule that some clubs have instituted. As mentioned, it is usually with 'anti-taunting' as a justification.

Re: Showing One Card (after everyone has folded)
 

At a home game, I raised some girl off of her AQ on a Qxx board, and I showed my Q. Her boyfriend reached over and flipped my 2nd card from the muck, claiming the "show one show all" rule. I almost got in a fistfight with him over this exact situation.

IMO this is NOT the spirit nor the letter of that rule. If they want to see cards that you don't want them to see, they have to pay for it.

Re: Showing One Card (after everyone has folded)
 

ugh stupid WSOP rules migrating East....no offense but I hope they stop where you are.

Re: Showing One Card (after everyone has folded)
 

[ QUOTE ]
At a home game, I raised some girl off of her AQ on a Qxx board, and I showed my Q. Her boyfriend reached over and flipped my 2nd card from the muck, claiming the "show one show all" rule. I almost got in a fistfight with him over this exact situation.

IMO this is NOT the spirit nor the letter of that rule.

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Because there are two different rules.
"Show one or more players your hand, all players are allowed to see your hand"
"Show one card from your hand, you must show both cards"

Re: Showing One Card (after everyone has folded)
 

Not at Commerce. I've seen at least 3 people try to use SOSA to force players to show their 2nd card. All have been denied. They showed their one card to all. Apparently no separate anti-taunting rule in effect there.

Re: Showing One Card (after everyone has folded)
 

This is the rule at CP. If you show one card, the dealer will expose your other card ON REQUEST from another player in the game. He will not expose the second card automatically.

Re: Showing One Card (after everyone has folded)
 

Slightly different question, but if there's an actual showdown, though, you have to show down both cards, right?

Situation: P1 bets, P2 calls. P1 shows top pair but doesn't show kicker.

Or, O8, P1 bets, P2 calls, P1 says he doesn't have low and tables the two cards for his high hand.

You have to show all your cards at an actual showdown, don't you? Or can you do this if P2 mucks without contest if the shown cards are enough?

Re: Showing One Card (after everyone has folded)
 

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You have to show all your cards at an actual showdown, don't you? Or can you do this if P2 mucks without contest if the shown cards are enough?

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Obviously your opponent no longer has cards you don't have to show yours. However that is subject to a player invoking the IWTSH or show one card show both rules if the room has those rules.

Re: Showing One Card (after everyone has folded)
 

Two different rules:

1. Show one show all, SOSA
2. Show one show both, SOSB. This one sucks, imo

Re: Showing One Card (after everyone has folded)
 

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You have to show all your cards at an actual showdown, don't you? Or can you do this if P2 mucks without contest if the shown cards are enough?

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Obviously your opponent no longer has cards you don't have to show yours. However that is subject to a player invoking the IWTSH or show one card show both rules if the room has those rules.

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I suppose this may be back to the etiquette rules rather than the actual rules; do you consider asking to see a full hand at showdown the same breach of etiquette as asking to see a winner that did not require showdown? If I were P2 in this situation (or anyone at the table), I would expect to see a full hand because the information *was* paid for, regardless of whether or not the shown card was enough to take down the pot.

I know the first time I played O8 in a card room, I was asked (by the dealer) to table all four cards even though I knew I was only playing for half the pot. I thought this was standard but wasn't totally sure.

Re: Showing One Card (after everyone has folded)
 

At Commerce, if there is a showdown and one person mucks after being shown one card, any person who was in the hand can request that both cards be shown by the winner and sometimes the dealer just demands to see two cards at a showdown before awarding the pot to the winner.

Key element: Did the hand get to a showdown?

Re: Showing One Card (after everyone has folded)
 

O8 is different. If you are in a showdown, you are expected to table all four cards and let the cards speak for themselves. Some many people make mistakes reading O8 hands, this is the fastest way to keep a slow game moving along.

Re: Showing One Card (after everyone has folded)
 

this occured while i was at the Showboat in AC this summer... a player showed one card and then was made to show both, which apparently was a rule they had just instituted that day. needless to say he was pretty pissed about it

Re: Showing One Card (after everyone has folded)
 

We had a lenghty discussion about this at a Caesar's tourney in Vegas. They call the 'SOSB' rule 'needling', meaning that you cannot perform the action of showing one card with the intention of leaving your opponent wondering if your second card helped.

This is obvious not a universal rule, but enough casinos enforce it that you may wish to discreetly ask the floor before you take up the practice of needling.

Re: Showing One Card (after everyone has folded)
 

Of course asking to see the hand is a breach of ettiquette.

Despite what you say calling a bet is not payting to see a hand, its paying to have the chance to win the pot. If calling a bet was paying to see a hand, then only the player who paid should get to see it.

Remember my response was to the issue of a player shows one card and his opponents all muck their cards based on seeing that one card, not a scenario where there are still two players with cards.

In your Omaha example i assume another player tabled his hand, in that case you must table your full hand or muck your hand.

Re: Showing One Card (after everyone has folded)
 

[ QUOTE ]
We had a lenghty discussion about this at a Caesar's tourney in Vegas. They call the 'SOSB' rule 'needling', meaning that you cannot perform the action of showing one card with the intention of leaving your opponent wondering if your second card helped.

This is obvious not a universal rule, but enough casinos enforce it that you may wish to discreetly ask the floor before you take up the practice of needling.

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The SOSB rule is becoming much more of a standard in tourneys. I think it is even written in the WPT TDA's, but am not 100% sure and am too lazy to check right now [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: Showing One Card (after everyone has folded)
 

At Bay 101, if you show one, u don't have to show the other even if requested if you are NOT called.

I know I will probably be lambasted for saying this, but I personally think showing one card is pretty egotistical and rude. You are taunting someone "I bluffed you haha!" or have some other motivation. If you aren't called, drag your pot, and move onto the next hand.

Re: Showing One Card (after everyone has folded)
 

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You are taunting someone "I bluffed you haha!" or have some other motivation. If you aren't called, drag your pot, and move onto the next hand.

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I disagree that this taunting. You are giving information, just because you aren't giving full information doesn't change that. Taunting would be mucking your hand face down and saying I bluffed you. And interestingly enough there is no rule agaunst that.

Re: Showing One Card (after everyone has folded)
 

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Of course asking to see the hand is a breach of ettiquette.

Despite what you say calling a bet is not payting to see a hand, its paying to have the chance to win the pot. If calling a bet was paying to see a hand, then only the player who paid should get to see it.


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Uh, no. If my opponent bets and I CALL, then he sits there like a tard until I prompt him to show his hand he is the one violating poker etiquette.

Re: Showing One Card (after everyone has folded)
 

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Of course asking to see the hand is a breach of ettiquette.

Despite what you say calling a bet is not payting to see a hand, its paying to have the chance to win the pot. If calling a bet was paying to see a hand, then only the player who paid should get to see it.


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Uh, no. If my opponent bets and I CALL, then he sits there like a tard until I prompt him to show his hand he is the one violating poker etiquette.

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it's the dealers job to ask for him to show his hand, not yours. I usually just flip my hand after a few seconds if they do not flip theirs as I just want to get the game rolling again. At this point you already know his hand is pretty weak or a pure bluff and I don't think that the extra "info" is usually all that helpful. The people that typically do this are horrible players anyhow.. so I want to speed the game up so I can get more money from them!

Re: Showing One Card (after everyone has folded)
 

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Of course asking to see the hand is a breach of ettiquette.

Despite what you say calling a bet is not payting to see a hand, its paying to have the chance to win the pot. If calling a bet was paying to see a hand, then only the player who paid should get to see it.


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Uh, no. If my opponent bets and I CALL, then he sits there like a tard until I prompt him to show his hand he is the one violating poker etiquette.

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If you followed the thread you would see we were talking about the situation where you don't have a hand anymore.

Re: Showing One Card (after everyone has folded)
 

Right, we may talking a little past each other. I wasn't really clear initially, but I was referring to both situations -- first, the bettor shows one card and the caller mucks, and two, the bettor shows one card and.... pregnant pause. Situation 1, fine, keep the game moving; however, because the other cards often need to be shown, shouldn't it be the default to show both cards in the first place at an actual showdown so that situation 2 doesn't always have to pop up?

I'd argue that the bettor should just table a full hand at showdown in order to keep the game moving rather than waiting to be asked to table both (or all four) cards if the one isn't enough. I also agree that this should be the dealer's responsibility and not the other players'.

There's a player in my home game that always only shows as few cards as he thinks might be needed until prompted, and I hate constantly being the one calling for a full hand to be tabled and wonder if I'm out of line.

Re: Showing One Card (after everyone has folded)
 

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I'd argue that the bettor should just table a full hand at showdown in order to keep the game moving rather than waiting to be asked to table both (or all four) cards if the one isn't enough.

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I don't disagree with this. Though as a rule if I think i have the winner i show regardless of whether i was the bettor or caller.

Re: Showing One Card (after everyone has folded)
 

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At Bay 101, if you show one, u don't have to show the other even if requested if you are NOT called.

I know I will probably be lambasted for saying this, but I personally think showing one card is pretty egotistical and rude. You are taunting someone "I bluffed you haha!" or have some other motivation. If you aren't called, drag your pot, and move onto the next hand.

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I'm sorry but any poker player who is pro anti-taunt should be escorted to the children's table. Really. It is a psychological game and if you don't want your feelings hurt poker isn't the game for you.

Re: Showing One Card (after everyone has folded)
 

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Though as a rule if I think i have the winner i show regardless of whether i was the bettor or caller.


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As do I, at the levels I play 1/2, 2/5 and 5/10 all N/L holdem it behooves me to speed the game up more than worrying about any miniscule amount of additional info I might give away.

Jimbo

Re: Showing One Card (after everyone has folded)
 

Alright, so what is the ruling if in the process of sliding your cards to the dealer from seat 3, one gets some air and flips up. Does the dealer have to flip up the other one now? (Assuming we're in a place with the show one show both rule, obv.)

Re: Showing One Card (after everyone has folded)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Alright, so what is the ruling if in the process of sliding your cards to the dealer from seat 3, one gets some air and flips up. Does the dealer have to flip up the other one now? (Assuming we're in a place with the show one show both rule, obv.)

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Remember that show one show both, like show one show all is only on player request.

Re: Showing One Card (after everyone has folded)
 

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At a home game, I raised some girl off of her AQ on a Qxx board, and I showed my Q. Her boyfriend reached over and flipped my 2nd card from the muck, claiming the "show one show all" rule.

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He's a complete idiot.

There are 3 rules.
1) "Show one show all" - "one" and "all" refer to people, not your cards. If any player at the table has seen any of your cards, you have to show them to every other player.

2) "Show both cards to win" - at showdown, if you are making a claim at the pot, you have to show both your cards. You cannot just show one card (for example, if there are 3 aces on the board, and you have the other ace in your hand for the nuts, you cannot just show 1 ace to take the pot. You have to show both cards. Even if the board has the nuts and you are splitting the pot.

3) "Show both cards if you show one" - if you show one card voluntarily to an opponent, you have to show both of them.

Rules 1) and 2) are pretty much universal and strictly enforced everywhere. Rule 3) is only in place at some places, not all.

Re: Showing One Card (after everyone has folded)
 

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Two different rules:

1. Show one show all, SOSA
2. Show one show both, SOSB. This one sucks, imo

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agree with this - SOSA is not equal to SOSB.

short example - live NL cash game at a so cal card room. I raise PF with AXs from the button. 4-5 callers. Flop is Axx. Checked around to me, so I bet. Everyone folds. So I'm waiting for the pot, when a player speaks up, "pocket Jacks, huh?". I take his bait and flash the A, then muck the hand with a couple of chips on top as a toke to the dealer. Immediately another player speaks up, "hey, show one - show all!", but is too late as the dealer scoops my cards into the muck and begins a new scramble. A small discussion ensues with one player insisting that SOSA is the same as SOSB. We run the scenario past the first floorman we can grab and he agrees that SOSA is not equal to SOSB.

Re: Showing One Card (after everyone has folded)
 

At Foxwoods there is no SOSB. A guy tried to do it and the dealer basically laughed at him.

Most of the flashing of one card that I see is the opposite of taunting. It is people showing that they would have won with top pair. Why they give out this info is slightly beyond me because it serves to make the player who folded feel good about it.

Re: Showing One Card (after everyone has folded)
 

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Why they give out this info is slightly beyond me because it serves to make the player who folded feel good about it.


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And you don't like the other players in the game feeling good? Some people believe it offers FBP (future bluff premium) and others show a bluff believing it offers FPP (future payoff premium) when you have the nuts in a similar situation.

Personally I like playing with people who think they "gain" when I willingly offer them information even though they are really losing.

Jimbo

Re: Showing One Card (after everyone has folded)
 

I sometimes show one card after winning an uncalled pot on a friendly table and its always the card that makes it clear I had the best hand. If I'm playing at a higher limit, more serious game I never show one way or the other. There's one guy at the 20 game who frequently shows the "off" card when I fold to him. I guess he is trying to play with me, however it only serves to reinforce to me that I made the right play. (I mean, if he really wanted to tilt me, wouldn't he show both losing cards?)

Re: Showing One Card (after everyone has folded)
 

That was a bad call by the dealer. It is definitely not the norm and there is no rule that says that player has to show his other card (unless that cardroom has a special rule which is ridiculous IMHO).

Re: Showing One Card (after everyone has folded)
 

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(I mean, if he really wanted to tilt me, wouldn't he show both losing cards?)


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No

Jimbo

Re: Showing One Card (after everyone has folded)
 

The Bellagio employs this rule for tourneys and cash games. The top tournament pros have voiced their opposition to this rule.