What is the real benefit of 6max Limit Hold\'em?
 

This question might sound ridiculous to most of you but it's the essential question that I'm asking myself at the moment. I'm playing Hold'em now since about two years. I started playing full ring Limit, moved then to short handed Limit (6max) and started successfully playing short handed NL in the meantime.

Whereas I succeeded playing full ring Limit and short handed NL in the micro/small stakes, short handed Limit is a thing that drives me crazy! I don't lose but I also don't win. It goes up and down, up and down and I can't get any edge.

It costs me the same attentiveness playing simultaneously two full ring Limit tables than playing one 6max Limit table but I make really a lot more BB/100 on the two full ring tables. Therefore I get more and and more doubts, whether it makes any sense playing 6max Limit. I don't want to demonize this short handed Limit game at all because at least it improved my skills a lot and with this additional knowledge I gained a lot more at the full ring tables and this knowledge is even useful for playing NL but that is the only benefit for me.

I'd like to discuss this point wit you and I like to hear about different points of view. Maybe somebody has a clue what my problem is.

Thanks for discussing this with me!

PS: please excuse my 'German-English' ;-)

Re: What is the real benefit of 6max Limit Hold\'em?
 

Well the benefit is that if you are good, there are more hands per hour and more decisions per hour, so more money is to be made. Also, while I haven't played full ring in quite some time, I would have to imagine that the bad players still flock to 6-max - so the player quality can be worse. The converse of this is that usually the best players are also playing 6-max, but that shouldn't dissuade you.

Most of us here find online full ring to just be really boring. Two years ago, everyone said that you should play 6-max because as you move up in limits, all of the games are shorthanded. Now, even at the lowest limits, the large majority of the games are shorthanded. So it's also a function of game availability.

Re: What is the real benefit of 6max Limit Hold\'em?
 

What stakes have you been playing?

To be honest I believe that low stakes 6max LHE like 1/2 to 3/6 are fairly tough to beat because of the rake. At even lower limits there is enough idiots for you to beat the rake and at higher limits the rake lowers substantially.

People banging their heads on the wall playing 1/2 6max should really consider alternative ways of gaining the bankroll to play 5/10+.


It seems to me that beating NL25 is pretty easy. Even multitabling 6-8 tables I'd say that a good player can crush those games for as much as $3-$4/100 hands including rb etc. Considering this I would play NL25 instead of LHE 6max 0.5/1 anyday as it is simply so much easier to extract money from.


If I started out again tomorrow with a $500 roll I would grind NL25 til I had $1k, then NL50 til I had $3k and then take shots at 5/10 6max - moving back to NL50 if I lost 1k.

IMO you dont play small stakes to win money to spend. You play small stakes to build a roll so you can start playing medium stakes and then really learn to play and REALLY make some money. Unfortunately I didnt realize that untill after banging my head to the wall playing 300k hands of 1/2 to 3/6 [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: What is the real benefit of 6max Limit Hold\'em?
 

One thing I forgot is the huge difference in the resulting rake. In case of full ring Limit games, the rake is quite acceptable at all major online Casinos but if I play 6max Limit, most of my income goes to the game provider. There is no other form of Hold'em that is suffering that much by the high rake amount than short handed Limit.

Re: What is the real benefit of 6max Limit Hold\'em?
 

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Considering this I would play NL25 instead of LHE 6max 0.5/1 anyday as it is simply so much easier to extract money from.

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I feel like you are taking the words out of my mouth! It's exactly the same conclusion that I've made so far.

Re: What is the real benefit of 6max Limit Hold\'em?
 

Full ring has become so much nittier than it used to be. Even at micro-limits you'll see lots of games with an average 30% of players seeing the flop and 4-5 BB average pots. All the bad players seem to have flocked to shorthanded nowadays.

The problem here, and a possible reason for your frustration, is that many of the bad players at 6max are LAGtards as opposed to the bad full-ring player who is typically loose-passive. While the LAGtard's strategy is still deeply flawed, it's closer to optimal in a shorthanded game than it is as full-ring. So things are naturally going to be much swingier, and you just have to try and adjust.

Re: What is the real benefit of 6max Limit Hold\'em?
 

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If I started out again tomorrow with a $500 roll I would grind NL25 til I had $1k, then NL50 til I had $3k and then take shots at 5/10 6max - moving back to NL50 if I lost 1k.

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Really take shots with only 300 BBs in the roll? I feel like a BR nit now. I almost always wait until i have like 500 BBs for the next level before moving up.

Re: What is the real benefit of 6max Limit Hold\'em?
 

When you play low stakes 6max LHE you have to use all the good sign-up bonuses you can get, no matter how small they are.

Rakeback is nice, but not high enough for those stakes IMO.

I started my 6max journey at .25/.5, now i´m (almost) at 2/4 and have played so far with an effective rakeback of nearly 100%(no joke), because of all the bonuses.

Re: What is the real benefit of 6max Limit Hold\'em?
 

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If I started out again tomorrow with a $500 roll I would grind NL25 til I had $1k, then NL50 til I had $3k and then take shots at 5/10 6max - moving back to NL50 if I lost 1k.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really take shots with only 300 BBs in the roll? I feel like a BR nit now. I almost always wait until i have like 500 BBs for the next level before moving up.

[/ QUOTE ]

I play with a 1000BB roll.

But since you want out of the rake trap as fast as possible I would advice you to take optimistic shots with a small roll. Taking 100BB shots with a 300BB roll is no problem if you have some limit you can be to fall back on.

Re: What is the real benefit of 6max Limit Hold\'em?
 

Sounds like I need to be playing more limit and what not get to get somewhat of a br back for 5/10...

Is the rake really that bad at 3/6? Thats just crazy to think about.

Re: What is the real benefit of 6max Limit Hold\'em?
 

With the rake the way it is I plan on moving over to NL for a while now. Shneids has said the same thing as Oink, it really makes no sense to grind out the bankroll at small stakes limit.

Before the legislation I easily made my way up to 3/6 through all of the really good bonuses and a good prop deal. Now I am trying to just grind the FTP low stakes games and it is a lot harder then before. Without the great bonuses and good prop deals it is pretty hard.

Re: What is the real benefit of 6max Limit Hold\'em?
 

this thread is depressing to someone who would like to learn to play LHE better and rather not drop bets at 5/10 right away. but then again i guess learning does not equal building.

Re: What is the real benefit of 6max Limit Hold\'em?
 

If you have a good rb deal, bonii, etc you can still make a good chunk of change playing lower limit 6 max. If you don't have these, then don't play 3/6 or lower. Even the best players have trouble beating these games because of the rake.

Here's my opinion on why 6 max is better. Lets say you have 2 big fish at a table. It is so much easier to extract money from them shorthanded rather than at a full ring table. Isolation is a great thing, use it...and it's a lot easier to do shorthanded.

Re: What is the real benefit of 6max Limit Hold\'em?
 

[ QUOTE ]
If you have a good rb deal, bonii, etc you can still make a good chunk of change playing lower limit 6 max. If you don't have these, then don't play 3/6 or lower. Even the best players have trouble beating these games because of the rake.

Here's my opinion on why 6 max is better. Lets say you have 2 big fish at a table. It is so much easier to extract money from them shorthanded rather than at a full ring table. Isolation is a great thing, use it...and it's a lot easier to do shorthanded.

[/ QUOTE ]

Also, I find it easier to make money when I can stay awake.

Re: What is the real benefit of 6max Limit Hold\'em?
 

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People banging their heads on the wall playing 1/2 6max should really consider alternative ways of gaining the bankroll to play 5/10+.

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This is terrible advice for aspiring shorthanded LHE players.

If you can't beat the lower games (higher rake and all) you will probably be destroyed when you reach 5/10 6-max.

If for some reason you are an experienced and successful 5/10 player without an adequate bankroll then micro-NL might be a better way for you to get $3K. But in that case you would already know what you can do and don't need my advice.

Re: What is the real benefit of 6max Limit Hold\'em?
 

Well Stellarwind. That wasnt exactly what I meant.

I agree completely.

You shouldnt jump straight into 5/10 without experience.

I guess I was referring more to players who can hold their own in an aggressive game but just dont quite crush LHE 1/2 - which there is no shame in at all.

Re: What is the real benefit of 6max Limit Hold\'em?
 

shhhhh. Please let them go straight to 5-T? I need rentz

Re: What is the real benefit of 6max Limit Hold\'em?
 

the fish flock to 6 max and more hands per hour=more money

Re: What is the real benefit of 6max Limit Hold\'em?
 

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To be honest I believe that low stakes 6max LHE like 1/2 to 3/6 are fairly tough to beat because of the rake.

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Which site do you play most of your games on? Some rooms pay back close to 100% of your rake at the low limits in the form of bonus+rb. This drops off considerably as you move to 5/10 and beyond. If you're playing almost rake-free then these extras will build your roll in no time.

Re: What is the real benefit of 6max Limit Hold\'em?
 

where do you see all this 100% rake return with bonuses and rb? pm pls

Re: What is the real benefit of 6max Limit Hold\'em?
 

[ QUOTE ]
What stakes have you been playing?

To be honest I believe that low stakes 6max LHE like 1/2 to 3/6 are fairly tough to beat because of the rake. At even lower limits there is enough idiots for you to beat the rake and at higher limits the rake lowers substantially.

People banging their heads on the wall playing 1/2 6max should really consider alternative ways of gaining the bankroll to play 5/10+.


It seems to me that beating NL25 is pretty easy. Even multitabling 6-8 tables I'd say that a good player can crush those games for as much as $3-$4/100 hands including rb etc. Considering this I would play NL25 instead of LHE 6max 0.5/1 anyday as it is simply so much easier to extract money from.


If I started out again tomorrow with a $500 roll I would grind NL25 til I had $1k, then NL50 til I had $3k and then take shots at 5/10 6max - moving back to NL50 if I lost 1k.

IMO you dont play small stakes to win money to spend. You play small stakes to build a roll so you can start playing medium stakes and then really learn to play and REALLY make some money. Unfortunately I didnt realize that untill after banging my head to the wall playing 300k hands of 1/2 to 3/6 [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

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oink i think you raise valid points; however, i don't get why you recommend playing 5/T sh if your concern is rake (u say lower games are tough to beat cuz of rake). at many sites, the rake all the way to 5/T is still high as 2/4 -3/6 for example. is not until you get to 10/20 that the rake starts going down significantly. but again goot points.

Re: What is the real benefit of 6max Limit Hold\'em?
 

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To be honest I believe that low stakes 6max LHE like 1/2 to 3/6 are fairly tough to beat because of the rake.

[/ QUOTE ]

They are highly beatable and I would go so far that an expert player using good table selection can win 2+BB/100 at 1/2 to 5/10 while 3-tabling.

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Unfortunately I didnt realize that untill after banging my head to the wall playing 300k hands of 1/2 to 3/6 [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

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Gee I wonder why Mr.LAG?.

Seriously I think that playing 1/2 to 5/10 demands another approach than playing 10/20 and above. I don´t think playing 30/20 or 35/25 is an optimal approach to those games.And that is probably why we sometimes have different opinions about how to play a hand.
I would love to have the talent to play 10/20 but I know that my playing style is more appropriate for playing 3/6 and 5/10. Yours on the other hand is more suitable for playing higher stakes.But it is easier to learn mine and be a successful lowlimit player than to learn yours and be a successful mid-limit player.
I can guarantee OP that he doesn´t have to hesitate playing lowlimit 6-max.Because it is impossible to not win substantial money if you have an average brain and some willingness to study the game.
Sure the money pot is bigger at the higher stakes and you have to adjust your play, but I still think it is a good thing to play your way up to the 10/20 games since experience is everything in 6-max.

And if you can´t reach the high stakes it isn´t a bad thing to make 3000-5000 dollars a month (playing 80h) at lower stakes.It is an OK deal and it is very doable.

Re: What is the real benefit of 6max Limit Hold\'em?
 

Apanage,

PM Sent...

2 quick questions for you though.

1. When you say playing 80h (this is 80 hours, right?) at low limits, are you talking about 3 tabling 1/2 or more like 2/4-5/10 to hit that $3-5K monthly mark? and

2. Given a $1200 roll to work with, what stakes/#of tables should one start out on?

Re: What is the real benefit of 6max Limit Hold\'em?
 

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[ QUOTE ]

To be honest I believe that low stakes 6max LHE like 1/2 to 3/6 are fairly tough to beat because of the rake.

[/ QUOTE ]

They are highly beatable and I would go so far that an expert player using good table selection can win 2+BB/100 at 1/2 to 5/10 while 3-tabling.

[ QUOTE ]
Unfortunately I didnt realize that untill after banging my head to the wall playing 300k hands of 1/2 to 3/6 [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Gee I wonder why Mr.LAG?.

Seriously I think that playing 1/2 to 5/10 demands another approach than playing 10/20 and above. I don´t think playing 30/20 or 35/25 is an optimal approach to those games.And that is probably why we sometimes have different opinions about how to play a hand.
I would love to have the talent to play 10/20 but I know that my playing style is more appropriate for playing 3/6 and 5/10. Yours on the other hand is more suitable for playing higher stakes.But it is easier to learn mine and be a successful lowlimit player than to learn yours and be a successful mid-limit player.
I can guarantee OP that he doesn´t have to hesitate playing lowlimit 6-max.Because it is impossible to not win substantial money if you have an average brain and some willingness to study the game.
Sure the money pot is bigger at the higher stakes and you have to adjust your play, but I still think it is a good thing to play your way up to the 10/20 games since experience is everything in 6-max.

And if you can´t reach the high stakes it isn´t a bad thing to make 3000-5000 dollars a month (playing 80h) at lower stakes.It is an OK deal and it is very doable.

[/ QUOTE ]

3/6 and 5/10 can be absolutely destroyed using a 35/25 style assuming one is a capable hand reader.

Re: What is the real benefit of 6max Limit Hold\'em?
 

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To be honest I believe that low stakes 6max LHE like 1/2 to 3/6 are fairly tough to beat because of the rake.

[/ QUOTE ]

They are highly beatable and I would go so far that an expert player using good table selection can win 2+BB/100 at 1/2 to 5/10 while 3-tabling.

[ QUOTE ]
Unfortunately I didnt realize that untill after banging my head to the wall playing 300k hands of 1/2 to 3/6 [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Gee I wonder why Mr.LAG?.

Seriously I think that playing 1/2 to 5/10 demands another approach than playing 10/20 and above. I don´t think playing 30/20 or 35/25 is an optimal approach to those games.And that is probably why we sometimes have different opinions about how to play a hand.
I would love to have the talent to play 10/20 but I know that my playing style is more appropriate for playing 3/6 and 5/10. Yours on the other hand is more suitable for playing higher stakes.But it is easier to learn mine and be a successful lowlimit player than to learn yours and be a successful mid-limit player.
I can guarantee OP that he doesn´t have to hesitate playing lowlimit 6-max.Because it is impossible to not win substantial money if you have an average brain and some willingness to study the game.
Sure the money pot is bigger at the higher stakes and you have to adjust your play, but I still think it is a good thing to play your way up to the 10/20 games since experience is everything in 6-max.

And if you can´t reach the high stakes it isn´t a bad thing to make 3000-5000 dollars a month (playing 80h) at lower stakes.It is an OK deal and it is very doable.

[/ QUOTE ]

3/6 and 5/10 can be absolutely destroyed using a 35/25 style assuming one is a capable hand reader.

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esp 5/10 where the rake isnt much of a factor. People don't know how to adjust below 10/20 for that kind of aggression, and for the most part they dont hand read. So their reactions tell you what their hand is frequently, but they really struggle to know where you are.

I really didn't start beating 5/10 consistently until I learned how to open up in position against the TAGs and LAGs.

Re: What is the real benefit of 6max Limit Hold\'em?
 

Apanage

My small stakes career can be spilt up into two parts.

Playing 25/18 like the Mbenhoe chart and sucking. Lifetime I was a loser up untill 1/1/2007.
Then I loosened up and it took my 6 months to reach 15/30 from 1/2.


Please see my other post where I post results showing that all the LAG hands that NO ONE can turn a profit from in small stakes are profitable. And even significantly so statistically.

Funny enough this is using a db where 85% of the hands are 5/10 and below....


I am sure you do well. I am sure you are a bright man.

But you do come of as an idiot whenever you make conclusions regarding the unprofitability of the plays you dont make.

Its like me saying AA is unprofitable UTG and I have been folding it all my career because the fishies just dont respect my raises.

DUCY?

Cliff notes to make sure you understand the important part

I HAVE EMPRIRICAL RESULTS INDICATING YOU ARE WRONG, WHAT DO YOU HAVE?

Re: What is the real benefit of 6max Limit Hold\'em?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Apanage

My small stakes career can be spilt up into two parts.

Playing 25/18 like the Mbenhoe chart and sucking. Lifetime I was a loser up untill 1/1/2007.
Then I loosened up and it took my 6 months to reach 15/30 from 1/2.


Please see my other post where I post results showing that all the LAG hands that NO ONE can turn a profit from in small stakes are profitable. And even significantly so statistically.

Funny enough this is using a db where 85% of the hands are 5/10 and below....


I am sure you do well. I am sure you are a bright man.

But you do come of as an idiot whenever you make conclusions regarding the unprofitability of the plays you dont make.

Its like me saying AA is unprofitable UTG and I have been folding it all my career because the fishies just dont respect my raises.

DUCY?

Cliff notes to make sure you understand the important part

I HAVE EMPRIRICAL RESULTS INDICATING YOU ARE WRONG, WHAT DO YOU HAVE?

[/ QUOTE ]

gotta agree with this. plus I was never a big fan of the mbenhoe chart to begin with. I think you never learn how to play poker if you just raise based on a chart and never look at the table situation around you. Sure charts can give you some basic guidelines. But all of those marginal hands on the edge are +EV when played in the right spot (and you can add more in the right spots) and -EV if you just raise them because thats what the chart says.

Re: What is the real benefit of 6max Limit Hold\'em?
 

This thread started out as "why play SH LHE"

And to respect OP I really think it should be kept there


But it pisses me off everytime we debate the preflop things that people start pulling claims out of there ass about which styles are optimal.

There is no way that anyone can know EVER!

Unless you play millions of hands using each style in the EXACT same game environment with the EXACT same players that play the EXACT same style over that sample.

Do this and then test which one is more profitable.


Seriously! Stop pulling out "facts" about optimal preflop play out of your ass.

The fact that you are a winning player doesnt imply you play optimally. It implies you play better than your opponents. Nothing else. NOTHING!

Re: What is the real benefit of 6max Limit Hold\'em?
 

in spirit of the OP. the value of playing limit, is that the variance makes you want to shoot yourself in the face. So then when you take a break and play NL it is like going on vacation because the donks just hand you money.

but seriously it is important to learn how to play 6max because there are few if any full ring games at mid stakes and up, and they quickly get invaded by good grinders. The fish who play midstakes all like to play 6max and gambool it up. So learning how to play shorthanded (HU, 3 and 4 handed as well) is really important in order to find good games above 3/6.

Re: What is the real benefit of 6max Limit Hold\'em?
 

There are good enough games for the non-US players, especially if one is playing them only at best times and picks tables. With a good rakeback/bonus deal the low limit games even from 2-4 to 5-10 are good enough for building experience and bankroll.

One should aim to finally play at 10-20, 15-30 and 20-40 (30-60 is supposed to be an another caliber, maybe because the ordinary people do not play that high), because of the rake and that they are not on regular bases comparatively all that much tougher.

If the US players get out of their ban, like the next year, those games will have more action than they have today, while the low limits at the EU sites might get tighter, but the middle limits will have more action, more tables, some richer hobby or less players on regular bases, more tables to choose from, multitabling - and that's where at least my experience tells me that limit holdem is better as the styles are more the same at limit but that's less so at nl that's additionally more of a people game.

Limit 0.5-1 when they were/are good I ended up playing seven or eight tables. At 1-2 when they were good at Stars I played three and four tables without it being a problem but Stars has a good software for multitabling. I think one loses more money multitabling nl than multitabling limit, but it's compensated by the factor that the rake factor is less of a problem at nl. Also the slowness of betting/action is compensated by there being less betting/action at nl.

Limit holdem full ring and shorthanded nl, maybe they have a similarity as for some experience that I have from shorthanded nl, it does make me think it looks like limit holdem full ring when the shorthanded game is solid (or generally too thinking about the mixture of rocks and unknowns at full ring limit games and think about the lesser amount of information at nl and its higher people game factors - though that as a word is what limit holdem is but that's another thing); when it isn't it's closer to limit holdem shorthanded that's my natural game so I might like the better action shorthanded nl games too; it's just not necessarily what they will most of the time be, and so maybe I play some four handed nl games somewhere in the future, though I don't see it would become popular though there are some of those tables too and one can create such tables, though they will not be like "regular" four handed games then but I suppose they would still offer better action. I will have to try them sometimes.

Many find the shorthanded games clearly more profitable than the full ring games but then there are some who don't make any more per 100 hands playing shorthanded. I have however made it absolutely clear to myself that the less players the more one makes, as long as the relative rake factors and the quality of player factor is the same. To me one shorthanded games is worth as much as two full ring games and I rather play two shorthanded games than four full ring games. I think it's also much about one's natural style, how well one does where ever one is at. Learning an another style of thinking or whatever is an arduous thing, like something unnatural, and I don't know if it's possible and it's often possible to pick whatever one does better at.

As far as speed goes, nl seems as fast as limit holdem when looking at the amount of hands one gets per hour. Then it's just about the fact that one makes less bets and calls at nl, there being more and earlier folding, but then one just gets that same money "faster" at nl, though I am just guessing but there are hard facts of results out there too.

There are far less limit games than there are nl games. One needs to compare the shorthanded limit games to full ring nl games if that's what one plays (they might at this or that site be similarly popular), but if one likes the shorthanded nl games, the things couldn't be better.

Re: What is the real benefit of 6max Limit Hold\'em?
 

So oink...when you taking on students? I just pulled my tent out of my attic to set up on your lawn while I wait.

Re: What is the real benefit of 6max Limit Hold\'em?
 

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Really take shots with only 300 BBs in the roll? I feel like a BR nit now. I almost always wait until i have like 500 BBs for the next level before moving up.


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One can use more exact "formulas" when taking "shots." The factor is that one does not need as much a br as 300 big bets when making shots as one is less likely to run into bigger losing streaks until one has played a longer time.

The longer one plays the more likely one is to run into longer and longer losing streaks. Because of all that 150 big bets rates to be a good enough "shot" and it's not necessary to have even that much if one takes like hours shots to good games every now and then when playing a step lower. Some say one is then gambling but that's not true in the long run. One does not need to have all the necessary money right now as one gets more later.

Those who stick to their higher limit will need like 1000 big bets, and those who about stay where they are need 500 big bets if they move down when they lose half of it, and there they still have the 500 big bets, and it's practically never going to happen that one loses 750 big bets and 500 of it at the lower limit.

If one is elastic with moving up and down, one can be more liberal in what one needs at any limit.

Re: What is the real benefit of 6max Limit Hold\'em?
 

You really have to attend your anger management classes OINK.
You misunderstood much of my post.I would rather play 35/25 and be so good postflop that I could beat higher games consistently.In fact I´m admiring what you have done with your game and I would rather be you than me.But the fact is it is much easier to play 25/18 in a 2/4 and 3/6 game and show a profit for the vast majority of players than it is to play LAG at the higher stakes.
So the advice to skip the lower stakes and start playing higher stakes was not that good.And I did think you pretty much told OP that it was very hard to win at lower stakes and that is just not true.


[ QUOTE ]

Playing 25/18 like the Mbenhoe chart and sucking. Lifetime I was a loser up untill 1/1/2007.
Then I loosened up and it took my 6 months to reach 15/30 from 1/2.

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Seems you´re making the same type of assumptions about preflop play that I did

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Please see my other post where I post results showing that all the LAG hands that NO ONE can turn a profit from in small stakes are profitable. And even significantly so statistically.

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Woe.Hold your horses.I have played 600K hands and I can certainly say that my hand stats aren´t even close to be statistically significant.How can you else explain that A8o shows a much better profit from open raising button than ATo. My database is full of things like this and if you see Stox database in his book it is the same thing.

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Funny enough this is using a db where 85% of the hands are 5/10 and below....

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Well that is funny since you previously stated that you weren´t a winner at the lower stakes still your supermarginal hands were winners.And if you started to win with those after you added them you can´t have a large sample since you moved up when you got enough bankroll. And it doesn´t take a long time getting a bankroll to move up above 3/6.

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I am sure you do well. I am sure you are a bright man.

But you do come of as an idiot whenever you make conclusions regarding the unprofitability of the plays you dont make.

[/ QUOTE ]

In fact I do think that playing 30/20 is closer to optimal than 25/18 even in lower stakes.But I do think it is only possible if you can play 25/18 profitable and I do think that it is tops 5% of the player population that can make more money at 3/6 and below with a 30/20 style than a 25/18.
I made a bad job making that distinction in my other post.
And yes I can see that these opinions makes me an idiot because I have nothing to back me up.

[ QUOTE ]

I HAVE EMPRIRICAL RESULTS INDICATING YOU ARE WRONG, WHAT DO YOU HAVE?

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No you haven´t and of course I haven´t either. And agaain yes it is wrong of me expressing my thoughts in absolute terms.But that is a problem I share with most other posters in this forum including you.
Within two years I will ask you to help me playing higher stakes and I would be glad if you accepted to coach me.

But I´m convinced that most players would be much better off playing lower limits despite the rake factor.And if they can´t win at lower limits it is not even an idea trying to play higher.
And I must point out that everything I´m saying is referring to 3/6 and below and to some degree to 5/10.

Re: What is the real benefit of 6max Limit Hold\'em?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Well that is funny since you previously stated that you weren´t a winner at the lower stakes still your supermarginal hands were winners.And if you started to win with those after you added them you can´t have a large sample since you moved up when you got enough bankroll. And it doesn´t take a long time getting a bankroll to move up above 3/6.


[/ QUOTE ]

I suggest you reread

None of the hands are statistically significant winners if you take each hand in each position. But bundling them up in various ways shows that they are as groups.

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Well that is funny since you previously stated that you weren´t a winner at the lower stakes

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Again I suggest you reread.

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You really have to attend your anger management classes OINK.

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Dont get me started with your "geez no wonder" crap then

Re: What is the real benefit of 6max Limit Hold\'em?
 

First you guys hijack the thread and now you are trying to set it on fire [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img].

Let's get back on topic folks [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img].

Re: What is the real benefit of 6max Limit Hold\'em?
 

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So oink...when you taking on students? I just pulled my tent out of my attic to set up on your lawn while I wait.

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I need to mark down dates for my calender? haha

Re: What is the real benefit of 6max Limit Hold\'em?
 

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First you guys hijack the thread and now you are trying to set it on fire [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img].

Let's get back on topic folks [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img].

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Sorry Stellar

Re: What is the real benefit of 6max Limit Hold\'em?
 

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the value of playing limit, is that the variance makes you want to shoot yourself in the face.

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This really made me laugh

Re: What is the real benefit of 6max Limit Hold\'em?
 

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the value of playing limit, is that the variance makes you want to shoot yourself in the face.

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This really made me laugh

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I missed that, good stuff. Also, it's fun to go to the BBV graph thread every month after grinding out 1-2BB/100 at limit. At least I can't loose 100BB in one hand.

Re: What is the real benefit of 6max Limit Hold\'em?
 

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the value of playing limit, is that the variance makes you want to shoot yourself in the face.

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Obviously you just ask yourself if you're a masoshist. If you enjoy pain, stress and self-doubt limit is by far the better choice. If you only feel like you need to be punished part of the time NL would be better with Limit mixed in when you feel like you need to be punished