TT UTG squeezed
 

Hero has been playing TAGgy, the BTN is Wumplepwn, one of u guys, so his hand is clearly a weakish hand looking to outplay with position postlfop and stuff.

SB in this hand is Lemur, also one of you very likley. I LOOOOOOVE his squeeze here with any 2 because our stack sizes make a ton of my hands really awkward to play, such as the hand I do have.

Anyway, how do u guys proceed from here?

Full Tilt Poker, $0.50/$1 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LegoPoker Hand History Converter

CO: $61.55
BTN: $119
SB: $194.70
BB: $138.85
UTG: $93.10
Hero (MP): $212.15

Pre-Flop: T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (MP)
UTG calls $1, <font color="red">Hero raises to $5</font>, 2 folds, SB calls $4.50, <font color="red">BB raises to $21</font>, UTG folds,

Re: TT UTG squeezed
 

I die a little inside and fold

edit: when playing well, which lately hasnt been the case

Re: TT UTG squeezed
 

standard call

Re: TT UTG squeezed
 

Yeah it's a small raise and we're over 100bbs, it's an okay call. I'd be careful postflop though.

Re: TT UTG squeezed
 

Any read on the BB?

Without one, I'd say you are getting pot odds + implied odds to call, especially if SB calls.

Re: TT UTG squeezed
 

SB being in the hand makes it more a call. If you call so will he then bingo, implied odds.

Re: TT UTG squeezed
 

i call all day. you ahve good odds to draw to a set and you can use your position to play the hand cheaply.

Re: TT UTG squeezed
 

and when he bets 30 on every god damn flop you?

Re: TT UTG squeezed
 

ehh u guys are kinda deep. yea call looks okay now

Re: TT UTG squeezed
 

if villain is good we are ahead of his squeezing range we dont need implied odds

Re: TT UTG squeezed
 

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and when he bets 30 on every god damn flop you?

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That's the beauty of implied odds. You can fold unless you get there then play some poker, and that's enough to be +EV. If you had implied odds pre. If you don't have implied odds, you're totally screwed.

If you know your opponent well enough to know when he is weak on what flops, then you can check-raise him and win a nice pot every now &amp; then. If you know him well enough to know when youre TT is best then you can win the occasional huge pot by taking a fairly passive line. But all of this is gravy on top of the set value of your hand because you had implied odds pre.

Re: TT UTG squeezed
 

your implied odds are not nearly as good as they seem given that you have poor position WRT squeezer if you are assuming that he's going to bet the majority of flops (which may or not be true)

Re: TT UTG squeezed
 

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and when he bets 30 on every god damn flop you?

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That's the beauty of implied odds. You can fold unless you get there then play some poker, and that's enough to be +EV. If you had implied odds pre. If you don't have implied odds, you're totally screwed.

If you know your opponent well enough to know when he is weak on what flops, then you can check-raise him and win a nice pot every now &amp; then. If you know him well enough to know when youre TT is best then you can win the occasional huge pot by taking a fairly passive line. But all of this is gravy on top of the set value of your hand because you had implied odds pre.

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Yeah...um...you don't really understand implied odds. You've read too much Phil Gordon, I suspect.

Re: TT UTG squeezed
 

Is there a reason you automatically assume " is clearly a weakish hand looking to outplay with position postlfop and stuff."?

Fold and feel ok about it.

Re: TT UTG squeezed
 

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if villain is good we are ahead of his squeezing range we dont need implied odds

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yea but if villain is good, its not like hes just gonna cbet and give up if he gets called on the flop.

Re: TT UTG squeezed
 

I fold - it's one of those hands where you hit a good flop like 15% of the time, and he gets you off a better hand a significant portion of the time post-flop

nice game selection

Re: TT UTG squeezed
 

Prob easier to just fold- if we think we're ahead, get in in PF, and if not, TT may as well be 22 here and that's a fold. Although I think it's close. But with 22 I'm sure I can fold the flop a lot easier than I can with TT (on say a 963 flop) so to avoid [censored] spots where I talk myself into a losing call, I'd ditch it pf.

Re: TT UTG squeezed
 

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Prob easier to just fold- if we think we're ahead, get in in PF, and if not, TT may as well be 22 here and that's a fold. Although I think it's close. But with 22 I'm sure I can fold the flop a lot easier than I can with TT (on say a 963 flop) so to avoid [censored] spots where I talk myself into a losing call, I'd ditch it pf.

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TT is not even close to 22 here.

Re: TT UTG squeezed
 

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Prob easier to just fold- if we think we're ahead, get in in PF, and if not, TT may as well be 22 here and that's a fold. Although I think it's close. But with 22 I'm sure I can fold the flop a lot easier than I can with TT (on say a 963 flop) so to avoid [censored] spots where I talk myself into a losing call, I'd ditch it pf.

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TT is not even close to 22 here.

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why not? i actually agree with him here, you are playing for set value. If you cold call BB's cbet on that board you will get squeezed out a lot by SB (and if you dont you are still likely behind BB's range). and that's about the best board you can ask for.

if you've seen him squeeze before i think other lines are viable, but readless i think its a pretty easy fold

Re: TT UTG squeezed
 

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and when he bets 30 on every god damn flop you?

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you bone him? srsly, this is very exploitable.

Re: TT UTG squeezed
 

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why not? i actually agree with him here, you are playing for set value.

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First of all, even if you ARE playing for set-value, you cannot call with all pocket pairs. If you call 22+, then villain can just auto-cbet and double barrel the turn because we won't hit often enough. However, if you narrow your range and only call with say, 99+, now villain cannot be so sure that you never have anything... So just for the sake of balancing your range, TT is different from 22.

Secondly, TT has good showdown value. Villain will often have a lower pair than TT, or A-x where x is lower than T. You won't get bluffed out as much as you think.

Re: TT UTG squeezed
 

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why not? i actually agree with him here, you are playing for set value.

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First of all, even if you ARE playing for set-value, you cannot call with all pocket pairs. If you call 22+, then villain can just auto-cbet and double barrel the turn because we won't hit often enough. However, if you narrow your range and only call with say, 99+, now villain cannot be so sure that you never have anything... So just for the sake of balancing your range, TT is different from 22.

Secondly, TT has good showdown value. Villain will often have a lower pair than TT, or A-x where x is lower than T. You won't get bluffed out as much as you think.

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Either you're playing for set value (where 22=TT) or you're not (you think TT is ahead/flipping) in which case you should be shove pf or all low flops. Problem with that is you run into JJ+ too often when TT is an overpair. As 22 is never an overpair the flop, I'm not as inclined to do something stupid with it (like shovesky)

Re: TT UTG squeezed
 

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Prob easier to just fold- if we think we're ahead, get in in PF, and if not, TT may as well be 22 here and that's a fold. Although I think it's close. But with 22 I'm sure I can fold the flop a lot easier than I can with TT (on say a 963 flop) so to avoid [censored] spots where I talk myself into a losing call, I'd ditch it pf.

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lol@ TT = 22

Re: TT UTG squeezed
 

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Prob easier to just fold- if we think we're ahead, get in in PF, and if not, TT may as well be 22 here and that's a fold. Although I think it's close. But with 22 I'm sure I can fold the flop a lot easier than I can with TT (on say a 963 flop) so to avoid [censored] spots where I talk myself into a losing call, I'd ditch it pf.

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lol@ TT = 22

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teach me then. Are you really looking to shove low flops here when he cbets and TT is an overpair? That's a great way to lose your stack. If you're going to float his cbet, TT may as well be xx, which, of course, could be 22.

Re: TT UTG squeezed
 

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why not? i actually agree with him here, you are playing for set value.

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First of all, even if you ARE playing for set-value, you cannot call with all pocket pairs. If you call 22+, then villain can just auto-cbet and double barrel the turn because we won't hit often enough. However, if you narrow your range and only call with say, 99+, now villain cannot be so sure that you never have anything... So just for the sake of balancing your range, TT is different from 22.

Secondly, TT has good showdown value. Villain will often have a lower pair than TT, or A-x where x is lower than T. You won't get bluffed out as much as you think.

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Either you're playing for set value (where 22=TT) or you're not (you think TT is ahead/flipping) in which case you should be shove pf or all low flops. Problem with that is you run into JJ+ too often when TT is an overpair. As 22 is never an overpair the flop, I'm not as inclined to do something stupid with it (like shovesky)

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wtf this logic is bad. TT is WAY different from 22 in that our showdown is so much better with TT. If we don't flop a set with 22 we are fcked, if we don't flop a set with TT we can c/c most flops and re-evaluate turns.

wtf

Re: TT UTG squeezed
 

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Prob easier to just fold- if we think we're ahead, get in in PF, and if not, TT may as well be 22 here and that's a fold. Although I think it's close. But with 22 I'm sure I can fold the flop a lot easier than I can with TT (on say a 963 flop) so to avoid [censored] spots where I talk myself into a losing call, I'd ditch it pf.

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lol@ TT = 22

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teach me then. Are you really looking to shove low flops here when he cbets and TT is an overpair? That's a great way to lose your stack. If you're going to float his cbet, TT may as well be xx, which, of course, could be 22.

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Except for 1010 beats sc, AK, AQ and 88-99. Theres nothing wrong with pealing a flop here.

Re: TT UTG squeezed
 

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and when he bets 30 on every god damn flop you?

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you bone him? srsly, this is very exploitable.

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boning him would be quite nice. Are you saying just turn my hand into a bluff and shove most flops?

Re: TT UTG squeezed
 

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why not? i actually agree with him here, you are playing for set value.

[/ QUOTE ]
First of all, even if you ARE playing for set-value, you cannot call with all pocket pairs. If you call 22+, then villain can just auto-cbet and double barrel the turn because we won't hit often enough. However, if you narrow your range and only call with say, 99+, now villain cannot be so sure that you never have anything... So just for the sake of balancing your range, TT is different from 22.

Secondly, TT has good showdown value. Villain will often have a lower pair than TT, or A-x where x is lower than T. You won't get bluffed out as much as you think.

[/ QUOTE ]

Either you're playing for set value (where 22=TT) or you're not (you think TT is ahead/flipping) in which case you should be shove pf or all low flops. Problem with that is you run into JJ+ too often when TT is an overpair. As 22 is never an overpair the flop, I'm not as inclined to do something stupid with it (like shovesky)

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wtf this logic is bad. TT is WAY different from 22 in that our showdown is so much better with TT. If we don't flop a set with 22 we are fcked, if we don't flop a set with TT we can c/c most flops and re-evaluate turns.

wtf

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we have position so we're not c/c anything. but all I'm saying with the 22=TT analogy is that we still behind all his big pairs, and with TT I'm going to be tempted to invest too much post flop money when I'm drawing very thin. Any flop without a T is going to be tough to continue unless we're prepared to stack off on a low flop here w/ TT, which I'm generally not prepared to do.

And our showdown is much better with TT? I don't think we're winning at showdown with TT if we're losing with 22, assuming we get there (because I don't think villain is going to have 66 or 78 and hit a 7 or something often enough)

Re: TT UTG squeezed
 

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Except for 1010 beats sc, AK, AQ and 88-99. Theres nothing wrong with pealing a flop here.

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Peeling flops in rr pots is spewcity, no?

Re: TT UTG squeezed
 

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and when he bets 30 on every god damn flop you?

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you bone him? srsly, this is very exploitable.

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boning him would be quite nice. Are you saying just turn my hand into a bluff and shove most flops?

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no... you call and give him rope. I don't see whats so complicated here.

Re: TT UTG squeezed
 

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Except for 1010 beats sc, AK, AQ and 88-99. Theres nothing wrong with pealing a flop here.

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Peeling flops in rr pots is spewcity, no?

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if villain is bluffing a high %, possibly valuing worse hands, not calling pushes with worse often and we have position, I don't see how calling could be defined as spew

Re: TT UTG squeezed
 

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and when he bets 30 on every god damn flop you?

[/ QUOTE ]

you bone him? srsly, this is very exploitable.

[/ QUOTE ]

boning him would be quite nice. Are you saying just turn my hand into a bluff and shove most flops?

[/ QUOTE ]

WHAT

Re: TT UTG squeezed
 

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why not? i actually agree with him here, you are playing for set value.

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First of all, even if you ARE playing for set-value, you cannot call with all pocket pairs. If you call 22+, then villain can just auto-cbet and double barrel the turn because we won't hit often enough. However, if you narrow your range and only call with say, 99+, now villain cannot be so sure that you never have anything... So just for the sake of balancing your range, TT is different from 22.

Secondly, TT has good showdown value. Villain will often have a lower pair than TT, or A-x where x is lower than T. You won't get bluffed out as much as you think.

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Either you're playing for set value (where 22=TT) or you're not (you think TT is ahead/flipping) in which case you should be shove pf or all low flops. Problem with that is you run into JJ+ too often when TT is an overpair. As 22 is never an overpair the flop, I'm not as inclined to do something stupid with it (like shovesky)

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wtf this logic is bad. TT is WAY different from 22 in that our showdown is so much better with TT. If we don't flop a set with 22 we are fcked, if we don't flop a set with TT we can c/c most flops and re-evaluate turns.

wtf

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we have position so we're not c/c anything. but all I'm saying with the 22=TT analogy is that we still behind all his big pairs, and with TT I'm going to be tempted to invest too much post flop money when I'm drawing very thin. Any flop without a T is going to be tough to continue unless we're prepared to stack off on a low flop here w/ TT, which I'm generally not prepared to do.

And our showdown is much better with TT? I don't think we're winning at showdown with TT if we're losing with 22, assuming we get there (because I don't think villain is going to have 66 or 78 and hit a 7 or something often enough)

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um we are ahead of villains squeezing range. AND WE HAVE POSITION. IF U FOLD THIS UR A NIT AND HORRIBLE AT POKER

Re: TT UTG squeezed
 

this thread is funny

Re: TT UTG squeezed
 

[ QUOTE ]
um we are ahead of villains squeezing range. AND WE HAVE POSITION. IF U FOLD THIS UR A NIT AND HORRIBLE AT POKER

[/ QUOTE ]

QFMFTIWJWD LDO LOL

Re: TT UTG squeezed
 

[ QUOTE ]
Either you're playing for set value (where 22=TT) or you're not (you think TT is ahead/flipping) in which case you should be shove pf or all low flops. Problem with that is you run into JJ+ too often when TT is an overpair. As 22 is never an overpair the flop, I'm not as inclined to do something stupid with it (like shovesky)

[/ QUOTE ]
Why the hell would I want to shove all low flops?

You sir, are awful at playing re-raised pots.

Re: TT UTG squeezed
 

Hey speedlimits- does degrading new posters make you feel like more of a man or less of a woman?

Re: TT UTG squeezed
 

manupod -

i don't think you realize the quality of the posters disagreeing with you here. starting a penis waving contest normally happens when your argument loses. Don't lose the first argument only to start a second losing one

Re: TT UTG squeezed
 

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Hey speedlimits- does degrading new posters make you feel like more of a man or less of a woman?

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lol u keep digging yourself into a hole.

Re: TT UTG squeezed
 

Gotta love the attitude of this forum- everyone w/ 2500+ posts telling me I'm an idiot, horrible at poker, a super nit, awful in reraised pots, etc. I only won 50 buy-ins @ 200 last month, damn. Less than 30k hands, too. Oh well, I'll continue sucking (away your monies) if that's what it means.

Ho hum.

If you don't like what I have to say, ignore it. But don't insult me.