100NL 3bet Pot C/R
 

<font color="blue"> Villain is 26/15/1.6 over 500 hands</font>

Ultimate Bet
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.50./$1.
6 players

UTG+1 with $292.40.
Villain is CO with $96.65.
Button with $99.
Hero is SB with $107.50.
BB with $131.45.
UTG with $57.50.

Converter

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is SB with 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, <font color="#cc0000">CO raises to $4.5</font>, Button folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $16</font>, 2 folds, CO calls.

Flop: 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($34, 2 players)
Hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">CO bets $21</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises all-in $91.5</font>

Re: 100NL 3bet Pot C/R
 

nah he calls too much

Re: 100NL 3bet Pot C/R
 

Probably just c-bet the flop/call a shove, he seems passive. Against agro guys you could check and make it look like you are giving it up with AK, let them take a stab and then push over the top.

Re: 100NL 3bet Pot C/R
 

gl hitting your 8 outer

Re: 100NL 3bet Pot C/R
 

[ QUOTE ]
gl hitting your 8 outer

[/ QUOTE ]

If you 3-bet 57s preflop and don't put the money in when you flop a OESD, really what flop are you hoping for?

Re: 100NL 3bet Pot C/R
 

dude, just fold pre

Re: 100NL 3bet Pot C/R
 

i really don't like preflop at all, or flop really for that matter. I guess if you do 3bet p/f with 57, this is about as good as you can hope for, but I would lead out, at least to see where you are. The check/push looks fishy, and I think you get called a lot.

Re: 100NL 3bet Pot C/R
 

check/shove will get called a ton. that said, you do want to get it in here once you got here this way. i think bet/call is better as it can get him to fold a lot of hands without investing your entire stack.

Re: 100NL 3bet Pot C/R
 

i bet/call here

Re: 100NL 3bet Pot C/R
 

3betting trash is good against TAG's who are't positionally aware and like to set mine. They miss most flops w/ AK and their small pairs, so cbetting is extremely profitable.

On the flop, however, they aren't good guys to checkraise because they're not aggressive enough to stab and fold. If they bet, they're rarely folding.

Re: 100NL 3bet Pot C/R
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
gl hitting your 8 outer

[/ QUOTE ]

If you 3-bet 57s preflop and don't put the money in when you flop a OESD, really what flop are you hoping for?

[/ QUOTE ]

His point is that once villain bets, he isn't folding often.

I'd rather bet hoping he folds random overcards and [censored] than do this.

Just because this flop is good for your hand does not mean that c/ring it is a good idea.

Re: 100NL 3bet Pot C/R
 

bet/ call.

Re: 100NL 3bet Pot C/R
 

wrong villain to cr probably, but you never even mentioned your image/recent history. That could affect the decision

Re: 100NL 3bet Pot C/R
 

spew-tastic

Re: 100NL 3bet Pot C/R
 

I don't really understand how no one likes a c/r&gt;b/c

Pretty mind boggling if you stop think about hand ranges.

Re: 100NL 3bet Pot C/R
 

c/c flop, shove turn

nice try everyone else tho

Re: 100NL 3bet Pot C/R
 

[ QUOTE ]
c/c flop, shove turn

nice try everyone else

[/ QUOTE ]

this line is sexy too. eric you agree bet/call is bad right?

Re: 100NL 3bet Pot C/R
 

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[ QUOTE ]
c/c flop, shove turn

nice try everyone else

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this line is sexy too. eric you agree bet/call is bad right?

[/ QUOTE ]

the worst

Re: 100NL 3bet Pot C/R
 

Bet the flop. Fold equity is your friend. If you think he's the type to peel a flop with a medium pair, fire again on the turn.

Trying to push a tagfish off a made hand with a fancy "c/c, lead" line is hilariously bad. What does that represent? A turned set? Gimme a beak. Tagfish default to calling down when they are confused.

Don't level yourself. He's straight forward, so speak in language he can understand.

Re: 100NL 3bet Pot C/R
 

[ QUOTE ]
c/c flop, shove turn

nice try everyone else tho

[/ QUOTE ]

i hope you don't mean every turn

Re: 100NL 3bet Pot C/R
 

just bet

all these weird lines on drawy boards just beg to be called because its a draw most often

Re: 100NL 3bet Pot C/R
 

Re: 100NL 3bet Pot C/R
 

[ QUOTE ]
just don't bet

all these optimal lines on drawy boards just beg to maximize expectation

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Re: 100NL 3bet Pot C/R
 

except c/c then shove sucks

Re: 100NL 3bet Pot C/R
 

b/f is certainly fine, unless you have the odds to call a raise obv. havent worke it out.

Re: 100NL 3bet Pot C/R
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
just don't bet

all these optimal lines on drawy boards just beg to maximize expectation

[/ QUOTE ]

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I agree with your flop check as anyone who calls a 3bet preflop is rarely folding this flop (unless we were deep). I just don't like the check-raise as villain will call often. c/c leading any turn J+ looks good. If you hit your straight i'd check again.

Re: 100NL 3bet Pot C/R
 

[ QUOTE ]
b/f is certainly fine, unless you have the odds to call a raise obv. havent worke it out.

[/ QUOTE ]

b/f isn't fine at all. it's the worst possible option given our pf play. checking here looks like i'm giving up on the hand and will induce overcards/weak made hands to bet. These hands have tons of real equity vs me and some will even shove if i bet, which is horrible for us. The objective is to extract the most out of overs while at the same time increasing my fold equity. Bet/call accomplishes NONE of these objectives and is in fact the worst possible line.

Re: 100NL 3bet Pot C/R
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
just don't bet

all these optimal lines on drawy boards just beg to maximize expectation

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with your flop check as anyone who calls a 3bet preflop is rarely folding this flop (unless we were deep). I just don't like the check-raise as villain will call often. c/c leading any turn J+ looks good. If you hit your straight i'd check again.

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i agree with everything except villain calling a c/r often.

I'm not saying my line is the best because I think it's 2nd best. I'm saying my line is infinitely better than b/c.

Re: 100NL 3bet Pot C/R
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
just don't bet

all these optimal lines on drawy boards just beg to maximize expectation

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with your flop check as anyone who calls a 3bet preflop is rarely folding this flop (unless we were deep). I just don't like the check-raise as villain will call often. c/c leading any turn J+ looks good. If you hit your straight i'd check again.

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i agree with everything except villain calling a c/r often.

I'm not saying my line is the best because I think it's 2nd worst. I'm saying my line is infinitely better than b/c.

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP

Re: 100NL 3bet Pot C/R
 

Look at your opponent, it's not like he's agro. He'll fold enough to make a bet profitable and prob won't shove AK and he'll probably call just call with JJ/99


if he is agro and you have been messing about then crai is fine.

c/c then shove is just terrible though.

Re: 100NL 3bet Pot C/R
 

not picking on you i'm just saying that just because your line is better than a bad line doesn't make it satisfactory. You were the one that started the whole searching for "optimal lines" and "maximizing expectation" banter so follow through and write off all lines which don't fit that description.

Re: 100NL 3bet Pot C/R
 

on second thought, u might not get looked up a whole lot with a c/r on the flop, so maybe that's OK, but c/c shove is not good imo...

he's passive, y not just b/f or b/c here, it sounds std, but i do save the c/r for the aggro types

Re: 100NL 3bet Pot C/R
 

Isn't our hand the same as 32o here if we b/c? If when we bet we get shoved on it doesn't matter if we call or fold since it's around neutral EV anyways. So w/ 32o we bet and if we get shoved on we fold obviously and folding is neutral EV because we aren't losing anything (although it's ++++++++++EV compared to calling lol). So our decision after villain shoves is neutral EV in both spots. Hope this makes sense? But I'm not sure of the exact math w/ calling a shove w/ our draw. It may actually be -EV.

Re: 100NL 3bet Pot C/R
 

fold PF and you won't have to make these decisions

Re: 100NL 3bet Pot C/R
 

[ QUOTE ]
not picking on you i'm just saying that just because your line is better than a bad line doesn't make it satisfactory. You were the one that started the whole searching for "optimal lines" and "maximizing expectation" banter so follow through and write off all lines which don't fit that description.

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b/c is the worst line
c/r is an OK line but not the best/worst.
c/c the flop, shove certain turns is the best line.

shove any J/Q/K/A turn. I actually like checking if I make my straight because it gives villain another chance to bluff or bet his weak made hand. Against tougher opponents I would just shove any turn after c/cing the flop.

Re: 100NL 3bet Pot C/R
 

why are we assuming villain will only shove or fold the flop?

Re: 100NL 3bet Pot C/R
 

[ QUOTE ]
fold PF and you won't have to make these decisions

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This is bad on so many levels.

Re: 100NL 3bet Pot C/R
 

zzz

Playing reraised pots OOP with 57s is terrible.
Checkraising villains who only bluff a small part of their range is worse.

zzzzz

Re: 100NL 3bet Pot C/R
 

[ QUOTE ]
zzz

Playing reraised pots OOP with 57s is terrible.
Checkraising villains who only bluff a small part of their range is worse.

zzzzz

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow both of these statements are wrong.

3betting OOP with suited gappers is fine if the villain opens light, just because he happened to call this time doesn't mean 3betting isn't optimal.

When checked too villain is betting MOST of his range, overcards/weak made hands/gutshots/overpairs.

So in conclusion, you have no clue how to play poker. Go back to sleep now.

Re: 100NL 3bet Pot C/R
 

cr sucks because he's never folding once he bets imo. cc shove and b/c are way better. I probably b/c

I also hate the idea of someone who posts a hand and then goes on and on about how his action was best. Why even post the hand, you know best obviously