Negotiating a New Car Price -- Your Stories.
 

Tomorrow I'm buying a new car. I want to hear how successfully you negotiated your new car price.

I'm getting a Toyota Matrix (for a variety of reasons, though it's not my dream auto by any means).

Two dealerships want my business. I met with them both today. I'm curious to know:

1) How close to cost can I get the dealership to go?

2) How much value do you put in a stronger warranty?

3) How did you get the best price?

Thanks in advance.

Re: Negotiating a New Car Price -- Your Stories.
 

Went to 4 dealerships, told them the exact car and modifications I wanted, told them I'd buy from lowest price period, that week, [1.9% was offered by all for financing], told them all what other 3 had offered, first guy gave me best price, closed deal. You have to get them to bid.

Re: Negotiating a New Car Price -- Your Stories.
 

costco has a new car program. 500 over invoice no hassels. dont pay more. make sure you see the original factory invoice to the dealer for that particular car. personally i wouldnt pay over that for any car. as the dealer also gets a rebate up to 3% quarterly called holdback from the manufacturer.
this applies to a current new car. not a leftover 2007 model that will be lose an extra years depreciation as soon as you sign the paper

its a great car. just a corrolla with a staion wagon back.

Re: Negotiating a New Car Price -- Your Stories.
 

A little off track, but I'm having a hell of a time finding private party cars for a reasonable price.

Even in negotiating, almost everyone is asking near-dealer prices for their vehicles.

It doesn't help that Kelly Blue Book, Edmunds, and Nada are all WAY different from each other - we're talking factors of 30%.

Right now I'm looking to pickup a cheapo 2002 maxima - edmunds says this should be around $9000 (halfway between clean and average). People are asking 14k ... ?!? and wont' budge below 12k.

Re: Negotiating a New Car Price -- Your Stories.
 

z28,

The prices are a function of national resale value, certain markets demand higher prices. I realised when shopping for motorcycles in the MD/VA area.

Re: Negotiating a New Car Price -- Your Stories.
 

3) How did you get the best price?

answer

Re: Negotiating a New Car Price -- Your Stories.
 

Consumer Reports sells a product that gives you all the cost information. Basically you need to find how how much they make if they sell "at invoice" and try to cut into that.

Re: Negotiating a New Car Price -- Your Stories.
 

If a dealership shows you the invoice and says they'll sell it to you at that, or you can talk them to it, take it. Trying to get it under invoice because you know they may make some money somewhere on it is pretty fruitless. My boss sent a girl packing the other night because she was trying to buy a car from us doing that [censored].

Re: Negotiating a New Car Price -- Your Stories.
 

I [censored] hate car shopping. I wish it was a like the grocery store, the price on the item is the price you pay. Negotiating and dealing with people in sales is one of the things I like least in this world.

Re: Negotiating a New Car Price -- Your Stories.
 

Last year I took some time off from college and spent 9 months selling cars at a Ford dealership, so I know a thing or two about buying a new car. Here's some useful information.

The best way to get the best price on a new car is not really to play dealers off each other but to simply get up and leave the dealership if you think they're not doing their best for you. If they can do better they'll do it to keep you from leaving. And if you do get out to the car and they haven't chased you down yet, the price they gave you was the best and you should probably go back inside and buy the frackin' car. The dealers all pay the same price for the new cars and there isn't any real money in the new cars for the salesman so they just give them away. At invoice, more often than not, and sometimes they even dig into the holdback if they really want something off the lot. Of course, this is for domestics.

With a Toyota, lol at thinking that you'll pay anything significantly below sticker. I'll caution that this might have been just the Twin Cities, but Toyota dealerships don't give anything away. And we have a saturated dealer market with insane competition. They simply don't have to. Hell, last year Toyota was actually trying to buy back Camrys from people that had bought them in the last six months because the dealers could sell them for sticker all over again even with the miles on them. They don't cut anybody any deals because the next person through the door will give them sticker if you won't.

I will say, though, that the Matrix might be the lone exception because they compete directly with the Vibe for sales. If you want to save money on a Matrix just go buy a Pontiac Vibe. It's literally the exact same car and GM will just give stuff away.

Re: Negotiating a New Car Price -- Your Stories.
 

I work as a full-time car salesman and One Outer is one the right track. A vehicle like a Toyota Matrix with an MSRP of around $16,000 has only about a $1500 profit margin. Overall if you buy any car for only $500 over invoice you are getting a good deal. However there are times that with rebates or other factory incentives you really need to be buying the car below invoice to get a good deal.

You should check carsdirect.com and get their pricing report for your area. You can definitely get the dealer to go below cost depending on how slow the day is and what inventory they have available.

Since tomorrow is just before the end of the month you should be able to get a good deal. You need to be flexible and take something off of the dealers lot.

With regards to the warranty it is a good idea only depending on the price. Toyotas have a 3 year warranty as standard but you really need to think about how long you want to keep this car. Also you should think about the fact that in 3 years your car will be worth half of what you paid for it. Any costly repair will be a huge chunk of the relative value of the car. Fortunately this is a Toyota which is unlikely to have a costly repair.

I don't sell warranties so I do not know what a good deal on that would be. Most places do not discount the warranty.

If you want to simplify things you can also call the Fleet department at any of your local dealers and one of the Fleet salespeople will give you a very aggressive price close to the dealer invoice.

It is very easy to make one dealer beat another's deal. Make a few phone calls, pick out something in stock and you are good to go.

Feel free to PM with more questions.

Re: Negotiating a New Car Price -- Your Stories.
 

If you are going to buy a hateful, boring car why not save money by buying one used? Get a 90's Camrolla or whatever.

Re: Negotiating a New Car Price -- Your Stories.
 

[ QUOTE ]
If a dealership shows you the invoice and says they'll sell it to you at that, or you can talk them to it, take it. Trying to get it under invoice because you know they may make some money somewhere on it is pretty fruitless. My boss sent a girl packing the other night because she was trying to buy a car from us doing that [censored].

[/ QUOTE ]

There is always another dealer. The last car I bought was a couple hundred under invoice, the dealer still made $450. That seems like enough profit; I mean if they don't want to make $400 I am sure there is a dealer somewhere that would like the $400.

Re: Negotiating a New Car Price -- Your Stories.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If a dealership shows you the invoice and says they'll sell it to you at that, or you can talk them to it, take it. Trying to get it under invoice because you know they may make some money somewhere on it is pretty fruitless. My boss sent a girl packing the other night because she was trying to buy a car from us doing that [censored].

[/ QUOTE ]

There is always another dealer. The last car I bought was a couple hundred under invoice, the dealer still made $450. That seems like enough profit; I mean if they don't want to make $400 I am sure there is a dealer somewhere that would like the $400.

[/ QUOTE ]

They didn't actually make $400. That's more like a factory rebate to the dealer to cover overhead. Generally, if a dealer is digging into holdback it is a net loser deal. They just wanted to get rid of the car.

Now, how do dealers do this and stay in business on new stuff? Easy. You weren't looking in the right place. You were likely so focused on the price you didn't notice when they totally buttsecksed you on the financing. Have a nice day!

Re: Negotiating a New Car Price -- Your Stories.
 

Get onto a car broker. Tell them exactly what you want - these guys will beat any deal you can negotiate on your own.

Re: Negotiating a New Car Price -- Your Stories.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If a dealership shows you the invoice and says they'll sell it to you at that, or you can talk them to it, take it. Trying to get it under invoice because you know they may make some money somewhere on it is pretty fruitless. My boss sent a girl packing the other night because she was trying to buy a car from us doing that [censored].

[/ QUOTE ]

There is always another dealer. The last car I bought was a couple hundred under invoice, the dealer still made $450. That seems like enough profit; I mean if they don't want to make $400 I am sure there is a dealer somewhere that would like the $400.

[/ QUOTE ]

They didn't actually make $400. That's more like a factory rebate to the dealer to cover overhead. Generally, if a dealer is digging into holdback it is a net loser deal. They just wanted to get rid of the car.

Now, how do dealers do this and stay in business on new stuff? Easy. You weren't looking in the right place. You were likely so focused on the price you didn't notice when they totally buttsecksed you on the financing. Have a nice day!

[/ QUOTE ]

Or maybe they understand marginal revenue. I wrote them a check, they were happy to make $400.

I guess it is important to you that people think buying a car at invoice is a good deal.

Re: Negotiating a New Car Price -- Your Stories.
 

It's not really important to me anymore. If anything, I'm a dealership's worst enemy.

Re: Negotiating a New Car Price -- Your Stories.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Get onto a car broker. Tell them exactly what you want - these guys will beat any deal you can negotiate on your own.

[/ QUOTE ]

Stagger, any tips for finding these people and working with them? I just met a guy that claims he could do this for me- but it sounds a little scammy.

Re: Negotiating a New Car Price -- Your Stories.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Get onto a car broker. Tell them exactly what you want - these guys will beat any deal you can negotiate on your own.

[/ QUOTE ]
I've got a buddy who is trying to start up a brokerage business right now. I had never heard of this service before. Do you have any experience with them? If so, was it positive?

Re: Negotiating a New Car Price -- Your Stories.
 

Great stuff, everyone.

Some questions.

Is there a simple resource that should tell me what invoice is for a Matrix?

The dealership told me yesterday that their "break-even" price was $18,515 (the sticker is $20,060). I wish I knew if that were truly their break-even.

My two current offers (which should improve today):

1) $400 trade for my falling-apart 1998 Dodge Neon with 136k miles, additional $1300 off, total price of $18,315. Dealer tells me that this would be selling it at "$200 above break-even." Warranty is standard 5-year, 60k on power train.

2) $500 trade; $900 off for a total of $18,660. Lifetime warranty on power train, but warranty seems designed to be voided.

Both dealers have said, "We could re-evaluate the trade value."

Re: Negotiating a New Car Price -- Your Stories.
 

I was under the impression that Toyota doesn't bargain on the sticker price anymore. They give everyone the same deal.

Re: Negotiating a New Car Price -- Your Stories.
 

[ QUOTE ]
I was under the impression that Toyota doesn't bargain on the sticker price anymore. They give everyone the same deal.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, that's not what's happening with me. So that either means

1) They're willing to bargain, or
2) They've jacked up the price that they have room to SEEM like they're bargaining.

Re: Negotiating a New Car Price -- Your Stories.
 

You'd probably do better selling your old car on Craigslist or Autotrader (assuming that you don't mind dealing with the BS that comes with selling a car). Do a blue book look-up on your car and see how much you are leaving on table by taking the dealer's price. It might not be even to justify the fuss of selling it yourself.

Definitely play the dealers against each other and settle on a price for the car before they start trying to sweeten their offer with extended warranties, undercoating, window treatments or whatever else dealers do to add to their profit margin.

Re: Negotiating a New Car Price -- Your Stories.
 

If they are saying they "could re-evaluate the trade-in price", then they'll do it. My wife and I just bought a new 2006 Chevrolet SUV-wagon thingy (forget the name) and traded in her Grand Prix. The dealership we went to had a decent offer, but above what I was willing to pay, so we left. Thanked them for their time and walked out.

Two days later, the saleswoman's (yes, girls sell cars too silly) manager's manager calls us and they go up a little on the trade and down on the vehicle price. We politely tell them that this is still above what we are looking to pay and the hard line amount we set when we first walked in is a hard line.

Anyways, three days after that, the same manager calls us and says that he "thinks he can get his boss to go a little higher on the trade and they'll drop the vehicle price a bit more" which put us at the price range we had originally asked for.

So, by holding out one week, the dealership dropped the vehicle price around $2,500 and upped our trade-in by about $1,500. The even funnier part was the sticker price we saw on the vehicle at the lot was about $3,000 over what my wife had seen it listed as on the Internet.

The saleswoman asked us where we found that price and said "she couldn't find it listed at that". My wife was ready for this and told her the exact website and location of the vehicle and sure enough, it was listed for the lower price. She 'went to talk to her manager' about it and came back saying "because you saw it at this price, we'll honor that".

To myself, I was like LDO you will. If you didn't, I'm walking off your lot now.

Bottom line is if the dealership wants to sell you the car bad enough and your price range for trade-in and vehicle price is reasonable, they'll find a way to do it.

We estimated that by researching the Internet pricing and holding out for that week saved us between $7,000-8,000 total on the car.

Re: Negotiating a New Car Price -- Your Stories.
 

I'm 4 for 4 using CR new car price service, fwiw.

Most recent was my 2004 F150. Did the deal online. I emailed the dealership, told them what I wanted, and arranged a t-drive. Thanked the salesman, said I had another dealership to visit and that I'd get back to them.

Did the same at the second dealership, where I presented my CR research, itemized the options, and showed the guy what I wanted to pay for the truck. He countered with a higher number. I had him write it down, thanked him, and told him I had to check out another dealership.

Took the quote back to my office, tapped out an email to dealership #1 and included my CR bottom line price. A day later the rep from dealer #1 calls and quotes me a figure very close to mine. I tell him I'll be in later that day.

I get there, show him my CR stuff, and we settle on a number. I then informed him of my trade in, which came off the agreed-to number.

The CR process works but you have to be willing to shop around and play one dealer off another. I've had salesmen call me crazy and berate me for using CR as a starting point, but I simply don't do business with them.

Re: Negotiating a New Car Price -- Your Stories.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Negotiating and dealing with people in sales is one of the things I like least in this world.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ehh, and the Ebola Virus.

Re: Negotiating a New Car Price -- Your Stories.
 

Can anyone give me an idea of what they'd be willing to pay for a 2002 Nissan Maxima SE, say around 60-70k miles?

The private party book values show everything from $8500 to $12,000, depending on who you quote and what condition it's in.

A local dealer is asking 14k for an 02 Maxima with 39,000 miles on it.... what do you think a reasonable target price would be to ask for that?

Re: Negotiating a New Car Price -- Your Stories.
 

I bought a 2007 Odyssey in April and got it for invoice. Figure out what invoice is on your car and decide what you're willing to pay. I used Edmunds. Next contact several dealers via email and let them know what you want, that you're buying today, and what's the best price they can offer. Now play them off of each other. You should be able to get to invoice or better. I got an aftermarket DVD player installed at the invoice price. It's a pain in the ass, but I saved $800 off of the Costco price and got a decent DVD player as a bonus. I did cancel my appointment with the dealer and tell them I was going elsewhere because one of their peeons told me he would not budge from the Costco price. The internet sales manager called me back and agreed to my demands and the deal was done.

Re: Negotiating a New Car Price -- Your Stories.
 

agree 1000% with jameso. i HATE salespeople so i emailed a bunch of dealers near me and told them exactly what i want and what im willing to pay (edmunds is a good source for invoice prices). negotiated everything over email and the only time i actually stepped into the dealership was when i went to give my deposit and pick up the car.

Re: Negotiating a New Car Price -- Your Stories.
 

[ QUOTE ]
agree 1000% with jameso.

[/ QUOTE ]

And I agree 1,000,000% with your avatar, Greek.

Re: Negotiating a New Car Price -- Your Stories.
 

We bought an 07 Honda Pilot a few months ago.

Step 1: Used our super credit rating to get a blank check pre-approval for financing from Capital One.

Step 2: I emailed several dealerships in the area and got their lowest internet price.

I went to this website: http://www.carbuyingtips.com/car4.htm
and downloaded this spreadsheet : http://www.carbuyingtips.com/offer.xls

I then looked around Edmunds to get invoice, holdback, factory to dealer incentives, etc., information.

Step 3: I took the lowest offer to the dealer closest to my house, whom I didn't get a quote from, and told them to beat the lowest offer and get my color. They did and we got $6,200k off the MSRP, ~20%.

Step 4: I told them if they could beat the rate on the financing, they could finance my purchase. They beat it by a few basis points, so that helped them make a little money.

Step 5: I told them if they gave me a fair price on my trade in, I'd sell it to them. Otherwise I'd just private party sell it. It was a fair offer based on work needed to be done on the 6 year old vehicle and my hassel to sell it and the tax credit I got on the net new purchase price.

Done and done. The happy wife has her new gas guzzler.

Re: Negotiating a New Car Price -- Your Stories.
 

Since some of the people in this thread used to be dealers I was wondering if they could answer a question I've always had.

Do dealers like it when you can just pay for the entire car on the spot with cash or would they rather have you finance the car b/c they can make a little more on bad finance deals?

Re: Negotiating a New Car Price -- Your Stories.
 

Big TR has some good points in there.

I just recently bought a car 2 weeks ago and I used the fax attack method recommended by fightingchance.com. I strongly recommend this method.

The gist of it all is that you contact 8-10 dealerships around you and tell them that you are going to buy a car and that you'd like to communicate via fax. Make sure you talk to the manager and not some lowly salesman in the chain. After you speak with the manager and get their fax info, the packet fighting chance sends you includes a great template fax to send over them as well as all invoice prices, holdback, incentives, etc. Include this in your fax.

You will probably get responses from 5-6 dealers which will quote you a price. You can also use this by renegotiating with dealers (i.e. some dealers will beat other dealer's prices).

I bought an '08 Infiniti G37 Coupe fully loaded. The MSRP was about $44k and the invoice was $39k. I calculated using the car buying tips spreadsheet that a $41k offer would be good and fair. Well I got a $41k offer from one dealer and another brought that offer down to $40k. So the method got me $4000 under MSRP (~10%) on a model that just came out 2 months ago. The $40 I spent on the packet (which was like 50 pages worth of info) was well worth it.

Re: Negotiating a New Car Price -- Your Stories.
 

Salesman don't care, but people who do that generally are going to be total asses about price. The finance people, or course, hate it.

Re: Negotiating a New Car Price -- Your Stories.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Great stuff, everyone.

Some questions.

Is there a simple resource that should tell me what invoice is for a Matrix?

The dealership told me yesterday that their "break-even" price was $18,515 (the sticker is $20,060). I wish I knew if that were truly their break-even.

My two current offers (which should improve today):

1) $400 trade for my falling-apart 1998 Dodge Neon with 136k miles, additional $1300 off, total price of $18,315. Dealer tells me that this would be selling it at "$200 above break-even." Warranty is standard 5-year, 60k on power train.

2) $500 trade; $900 off for a total of $18,660. Lifetime warranty on power train, but warranty seems designed to be voided.

Both dealers have said, "We could re-evaluate the trade value."

[/ QUOTE ]

I kind of suspected that that would be the case with the Matrix, given that the Vibe is the same vehicle. Don't expect to do any of this with any other Toyota model.

The price they're giving you is legit. I'd be shocked if that were more than $400 over invoice. And that would about be their breakeven point. As a general rule, competition is such that when it comes to new cars the salesman is going to be completely up front with you about price (ask him to show you the invoice- he'll do it). The things you really need to pay attention to in a new car transaction are the trade allowance and the fine print back in finance.

Especially the trade. I made thousands off stepping on trades when I sold cars. For instance, say the used car manager appraises your Neon at $800. If it were me I would show you $400 because the difference between what I give you on paper and the appraisal gets rolled into the profit on the deal. And commissions where I worked went into holdback. So say the holdback is $800 (about right for this price), they're selling it for $200 over invoice, so we have $1000 "profit" the salesman is getting paid on. Where I worked we got 25% base. So if he steps on your trade he has added $400 dollars to his deal, so instead of getting $250 he now gets $350. See?

I can remember one deal where this guy was trading in an Audi special edition A4 he had owned for only four months. He had no idea how special his car was and I could tell that he had only researched the value of an ordinary A4. I managed to step on his wholesale value by $3000. That was an extra $750 for me. That's pure profit, like selling stolen merchandise or pot you grew yourself, but legal and with a lot less work. The best part was now that we owned it for way less than it was worth I bought it myself for only $500 over what we paid for it. I still drive it.

They can do better on your trade. That's a crappy car, but they will turn around and wholesale it for $1000 or so. Don't try and take all of that wholesale money away from them, but you should be trying to get between $600-800 for the Neon.

You're way better off letting the dealer take care of the trade for you. Provided you don't let them steal it, you come out way ahead in time, aggravation and money (remember, you have to pay the state sales tax when you sell your car!) when you trade it in.

Re: Negotiating a New Car Price -- Your Stories.
 

I got referred to a car broker from the independent car financer that I used. I have done this twice, with two different brokers and I will never buy a car another way.

In both cases the guys were self employed & this is all they do - find cars for people.

All you have to do is go to the dealership they do the deal with and pick up the car. Dealers I know do not like these brokers. In both cases I saved thousands and saved heaps of time.


To anser another question re: cash sales. From what I gather salesmen don't really care - they want the sale. If you are dealing with the owner of the business you may fare better with cash & you may get two receipts.

In one place I know the salesmen were getting better commission from the F&I guys (Finance & Insurance) than they were from their own boss. So a lot of stock was sold 'at cost' as long as the F&I deal went with it. Until the owner realised what was going on. No margin in nothing.

Re: Negotiating a New Car Price -- Your Stories.
 

[ QUOTE ]
If they are saying they "could re-evaluate the trade-in price", then they'll do it. My wife and I just bought a new 2006 Chevrolet SUV-wagon thingy (forget the name) and traded in her Grand Prix. The dealership we went to had a decent offer, but above what I was willing to pay, so we left. Thanked them for their time and walked out.

Two days later, the saleswoman's (yes, girls sell cars too silly) manager's manager calls us and they go up a little on the trade and down on the vehicle price. We politely tell them that this is still above what we are looking to pay and the hard line amount we set when we first walked in is a hard line.

Anyways, three days after that, the same manager calls us and says that he "thinks he can get his boss to go a little higher on the trade and they'll drop the vehicle price a bit more" which put us at the price range we had originally asked for.

So, by holding out one week, the dealership dropped the vehicle price around $2,500 and upped our trade-in by about $1,500. The even funnier part was the sticker price we saw on the vehicle at the lot was about $3,000 over what my wife had seen it listed as on the Internet.

The saleswoman asked us where we found that price and said "she couldn't find it listed at that". My wife was ready for this and told her the exact website and location of the vehicle and sure enough, it was listed for the lower price. She 'went to talk to her manager' about it and came back saying "because you saw it at this price, we'll honor that".

To myself, I was like LDO you will. If you didn't, I'm walking off your lot now.

Bottom line is if the dealership wants to sell you the car bad enough and your price range for trade-in and vehicle price is reasonable, they'll find a way to do it.

We estimated that by researching the Internet pricing and holding out for that week saved us between $7,000-8,000 total on the car.

[/ QUOTE ]

The internet [censored] happens to me all the time. I'll be out on the lot and the price is on the window and they're like 'we saw this for blah blah blah, what's the deal' so I go check the computer and they don't have anything listed in our inventory screens but if I ask my manager he'll tell me that the used car manager put an internet special on it or some [censored]. It's annoying as hell sometimes.

Re: Negotiating a New Car Price -- Your Stories.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Big TR has some good points in there.

I just recently bought a car 2 weeks ago and I used the fax attack method recommended by fightingchance.com. I strongly recommend this method.

The gist of it all is that you contact 8-10 dealerships around you and tell them that you are going to buy a car and that you'd like to communicate via fax. Make sure you talk to the manager and not some lowly salesman in the chain. After you speak with the manager and get their fax info, the packet fighting chance sends you includes a great template fax to send over them as well as all invoice prices, holdback, incentives, etc. Include this in your fax.

You will probably get responses from 5-6 dealers which will quote you a price. You can also use this by renegotiating with dealers (i.e. some dealers will beat other dealer's prices).

I bought an '08 Infiniti G37 Coupe fully loaded. The MSRP was about $44k and the invoice was $39k. I calculated using the car buying tips spreadsheet that a $41k offer would be good and fair. Well I got a $41k offer from one dealer and another brought that offer down to $40k. So the method got me $4000 under MSRP (~10%) on a model that just came out 2 months ago. The $40 I spent on the packet (which was like 50 pages worth of info) was well worth it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bingo. There were 3 places close to me and a 4th 20mins away so I just did it in person. I did it at the end of the month too, when I went back to lowest bid he chopped another $500 off the price to get me to sign that day. [monthly sales contests ftw!]

'Dealer Invoice' is a nonsense number, Without knowing demand, holdback, etc, etc it just makes you feel good knowing you paid $500 over or whatever, not knowing dealer was getting $3k in holdback and incentives and was willing to go lower.