NY-AC Express Train Update from Phila. Inquirer
 

The Philadelphia Inquirer ran a story about the NY-AC express service on October 15, but I just noticed it today. It doesn't give exact information on fares or commencement of service, but it does provide a few updates:

<ul type="square">[*]Service will start in late 2007 or early 2008. When the service was first announced (June 2006), NJ Transit had projected a start date in late 2007. [*]Fares will be "competitive, not necessarily comparable" with existing Amtrak-NJ Transit train service requiring a change in Philadelphia. The Inquirer pegs that price at $53 to $87; to arrive at those numbers, they must have used fares for Amtrak Regional service. Previous coverage had suggested the pricing would be in line with Amtrak's more expensive Acela, not the Regional. The one-way NY-Philly Acela fare for this Friday is $135 at 5 PM, $122 at 6 PM. Since the story didn't explicitly state that Regional service would be the price guide, I suspect the fares will be more in line with the Acela prices.[*]Trip time will be 160 minutes, with one intermediate stop in Newark.[*]There will be nine round trips each weekend, and each train will have 300 seats. Previous reports had said as many as 75% of tickets would be reserved for the subsidizing casino operators (Borgata and HET) with only 25% of tickets (that is, 675 each way per weekend) to be sold on the open market. So, this won't (at least initially) be a very high-capacity venture with lots of tickets to sell, making it easier to hit these high price targets.[/list]

Re: NY-AC Express Train Update from Phila. Inquirer
 

160 minutes with an intermediate stop in Newark?

Just put me on a bus.

Re: NY-AC Express Train Update from Phila. Inquirer
 

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160 minutes with an intermediate stop in Newark?

Just put me on a bus.

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Almost every train that heads south out of NYC stops through Newark-Penn Station. I wouldn't pay that much for a ride to AC (prefer to drive), but it would be much more enjoyable than a bus trip.

Re: NY-AC Express Train Update from Phila. Inquirer
 

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[ QUOTE ]
160 minutes with an intermediate stop in Newark?

Just put me on a bus.

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Almost every train that heads south out of NYC stops through Newark-Penn Station. I wouldn't pay that much for a ride to AC (prefer to drive), but it would be much more enjoyable than a bus trip.

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Somewhere in the neighborhood of $52 to $135??? Bus is $32 get $20 back. Only $12. This sounds like it will be way too expensive anyways. Especially if it takes 2 hrs to get there and the bus only takes about 2hrs and 20mins. I will go via Academy or Greyhound. Now if they made it an express train like the high speed ones they have in Europe and you get there in an hour...I might be tempted.

Re: NY-AC Express Train Update from Phila. Inquirer
 

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160 minutes with an intermediate stop in Newark?

Just put me on a bus.

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Almost every train that heads south out of NYC stops through Newark-Penn Station. I wouldn't pay that much for a ride to AC (prefer to drive), but it would be much more enjoyable than a bus trip.

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The train won't appeal to everybody, but I think there's a significant market in NYC that will buy tickets. It's targeted at affluent young people (25-35 years old) who live in NYC and don't have cars. New York is basically the only market in the country with lots of affluent, carless households.

Currently, their two main options for getting to AC are the bus and car rental. The train will be much more expensive than the bus and a bit more expensive than car rental (assuming a group of two people who can share one car). However, a lot of people (myself included) find the bus to be a very unpleasant experience. Driving is nicer, but traffic is often bad at peak Atlantic City travel times. 2h 40m sounds slow, but it's definitely faster than my average Friday afternoon drive time to AC. Further, a lot of people who choose to be carless Manhattanites don't like to drive at all.

Some people don't mind the bus and some people like to drive. The key users for the train will be people who find the bus to be gross and driving to be a hassle not worth the marginal cost savings.

Re: NY-AC Express Train Update from Phila. Inquirer
 

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The train won't appeal to everybody, but I think there's a significant market in NYC that will buy tickets. It's targeted at affluent young people (25-35 years old) who live in NYC and don't have cars. New York is basically the only market in the country with lots of affluent, carless households.

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Take it one step further, I think it will become known as "The Comp Train" - replacing the long lost comped limo rides of the old days now that AC is on a downward trend.

Re: NY-AC Express Train Update from Phila. Inquirer
 

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Fares have not been set, but casino officials say they expect prices to be competitive with Amtrak's service through Philadelphia, which ranges from $53 to $87 EACH WAY.

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Way too much. And I love trains.

Re: NY-AC Express Train Update from Phila. Inquirer
 

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The train won't appeal to everybody, but I think there's a significant market in NYC that will buy tickets. It's targeted at affluent young people (25-35 years old) who live in NYC and don't have cars. New York is basically the only market in the country with lots of affluent, carless households.

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Take it one step further, I think it will become known as "The Comp Train" - replacing the long lost comped limo rides of the old days now that AC is on a downward trend.

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I really miss the 80's.

Re: NY-AC Express Train Update from Phila. Inquirer
 

Maybe a bus to AC from the city attracts a different crowd, but I took bus rides from ohio to psu to visit an ex gf, and I can't exactly say I was comfortable with the average rider

Re: NY-AC Express Train Update from Phila. Inquirer
 

i haven't taken the bus to AC before, but was considering it.

Is it really that bad? Should I be worried about carrying my roll on it?

Re: NY-AC Express Train Update from Phila. Inquirer
 

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i haven't taken the bus to AC before, but was considering it.

Is it really that bad?

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Its so much worse then you could ever imagine.

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Should I be worried about carrying my roll on it?

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Not at all. Its not "You're gonna get raped" bad. Its "I have to sit next to smelly, fat, dirty, smelly, fat, dirty, smelly, smelly people" bad.

Re: NY-AC Express Train Update from Phila. Inquirer
 

I don't think that Amtrak regional fare is a good comparison, since it's a flat fair regardless of source and destination. People who go from NYC to Philly are a bit ripped off, since the same fare takes you from one end of NE corridor to the other.

Re: NY-AC Express Train Update from Phila. Inquirer
 

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i haven't taken the bus to AC before, but was considering it.

Is it really that bad?

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Its so much worse then you could ever imagine.

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Should I be worried about carrying my roll on it?

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Not at all. Its not "You're gonna get raped" bad. Its "I have to sit next to smelly, fat, dirty, smelly, fat, dirty, smelly, smelly people" bad.

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Bring a hat, your head will itch for 2 days from whatever creepy crawlies are living in the fabric on the head rests. I learned the hard way.

Re: NY-AC Express Train Update from Phila. Inquirer
 

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I don't think that Amtrak regional fare is a good comparison, since it's a flat fair regardless of source and destination. People who go from NYC to Philly are a bit ripped off, since the same fare takes you from one end of NE corridor to the other.

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This is untrue. For example, the regional that departs New York Penn Station at 11:35 AM this Friday costs $61 to Philly and $98 to Washington DC.

Re: NY-AC Express Train Update from Phila. Inquirer
 

That is way too expensive. The Academy bus leaving from Port Authority is $32 with $20 back, for a total of $12. Sure, you may have to sit next to rude and obese people, but on some shifts you may have the seat all to yourself.

Re: NY-AC Express Train Update from Phila. Inquirer
 

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Bring a hat, your head will itch for 2 days from whatever creepy crawlies are living in the fabric on the head rests. I learned the hard way.

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Wow.

You guys must have had some real effed up experiences on that bus.

My wife and I have been doing Academy (and lately Greyhound, since Acedemy has become less reliable) one to two times a month - since 1996.

We like to consider ourself decently dressed and well groomed ... it kind of goes with being professionals employed in New York City.

So out of more than 150 r/t I remember two (2) problem passenger ... one was a middle aged blond German lady, who had a very noisy meltdown (she actually hit the driver with her paper) because the person in front of her leant the seat back all the way back ... the other was admittedly smelly, a very drunk older "gentleman" going back to New York 2 AM in the morning, with puke and urin on his clothes; he probably shouldn't have been admitted to the bus, and we could have waited for the next departure 45 minutes later.

So that's like two incidents out of 11 years of travel.

FWIW, I'll take the AC bus over transatlantic flights (coach) anytime.

Re: NY-AC Express Train Update from Phila. Inquirer
 

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FWIW, I'll take the AC bus over transatlantic flights (coach) anytime.

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I agree with you overall, but only because 2 - 2.5 hours on the bus is better than 6 or 7 hours on a plane (plus hours of overhead at the airport).

I took the bus about 20 times overall and I'd say about half were fine. I either had no one sitting next to me, or somebody decent. I'd say 5 sucked because I was beside somebody that either smelled kind of bad, was wearing pretty dirty clothes, or was fat and took over my space.

I'd say I had 5 completely horrible experiences. One involved a 300 pound mentally retarded women who kept putting herself into weird positions on her aisle seat next to me, some of which involved her fat ass significantly in my space. She of course did not respond to any comments or pushing by me. One involved a guy that smelled so bad I wanted to vomit the whole trip, and occassionally started to gag. One involved having to pull the bus over and have the cops show up because a guy went crazy screaming and yelling up and down the aisle. Once involved a 4-5 hour trip wedged into a tiny space next to a fat man because the bus had a flat tire and we had to wait for a change. There's one other pretty bad trip, but I can't remember it. I think I've repressed it.

On top of all of that it was just a giant waste of time for me by the time I got to the PA, waited for a bus, got to AC, got the Jitney and of course did it all in reverse. Driving now gets me there a lot more comfortably in about 35% of the time.

Edit: There was the time I waited 3 hours at the Bus station (from 2:30ish to 5:30ish in the morning) in AC because I stupidly believed the posted schedule. Nobody bothered to tell me that they went to the casinos first and only showed up at the terminal if there was room. Or the time I waited half an hour in the freezing cold at Bally's because the bus driver pulled up then took her sweet ass time opening the door. This pissed off people in line who yelled at her. This scared her so she drove away without picking us up. She came back 20 minutes later and had to have another guy come out and make sure we calmly got on the bus.

Re: NY-AC Express Train Update from Phila. Inquirer
 

The demand is certainly there in NYC. I lived in Manhattan for four years, and my friends and I used to call a car service to take us to AC ($220 + tip each way) because the bus was *that* bad, and renting a car meant driving in traffic on the way there + falling asleep at the wheel on the way back. I can think of quite a few people I know who will become frequent riders on this train.

Re: NY-AC Express Train Update from Phila. Inquirer
 

There certainly will be a few pluses to taking the train, though if the price difference is really over $100 even I would put up with the bus.
<u>Bus</u>
Cramped
Way too much fried chicken/ Burger king/curry goat
Lots of traffic going out of NYC
<u>Train</u>
no traffic
most likely less stinky food
s/b more comfortable
but... seems schedule will be less flexible

Driving FTW

Re: NY-AC Express Train Update from Phila. Inquirer
 

I barely go to ac anymore but I took that bus atleast 50 times from 2003-05
Its mostly filled with the scum of the earth but theyre the same degenerates thats youll be sitting next to playing poker in a casino anyway.

I never felt uncomfortable with several thousand dollars on me ( I don't dress like I have money which may help)

Re: NY-AC Express Train Update from Phila. Inquirer
 

The people that go from Port Authority to Bally's or the Showboat or wherever in AC via bus are essentially the scum of the Earth. Riding that bus without an iPod is one of the most depressing experiences ever. People cheering when you first see Trump billboards and so forth.

Re: NY-AC Express Train Update from Phila. Inquirer
 

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The people that go from Port Authority to Bally's or the Showboat or wherever in AC via bus are essentially the scum of the Earth. Riding that bus without an iPod is one of the most depressing experiences ever. People cheering when you first see Trump billboards and so forth.

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This truly depressed me [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: NY-AC Express Train Update from Phila. Inquirer
 

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[ QUOTE ]
The people that go from Port Authority to Bally's or the Showboat or wherever in AC via bus are essentially the scum of the Earth. Riding that bus without an iPod is one of the most depressing experiences ever. People cheering when you first see Trump billboards and so forth.

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This truly depressed me [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

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wow you brong back some bad memories
the only thing worse is on the way back since 90% of them lost their rent money on the trip
One time 4 people were having an argument over who had the bigger gambling problem based on how much they each lost.

Re: NY-AC Express Train Update from Phila. Inquirer
 

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The people that go from Port Authority to Bally's or the Showboat or wherever in AC via bus are essentially the scum of the Earth. Riding that bus without an iPod is one of the most depressing experiences ever. People cheering when you first see Trump billboards and so forth.

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LOL I once had a guy sitting behind me animately bragging the entire way to his companion how he was gonna "hit it big" with a slot machine playing system he had devised - with only $80 in his pockets. I truly wanted to reach back and smack him with the magazine I was reading.

Re: NY-AC Express Train Update from Phila. Inquirer
 

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[ QUOTE ]
The people that go from Port Authority to Bally's or the Showboat or wherever in AC via bus are essentially the scum of the Earth. Riding that bus without an iPod is one of the most depressing experiences ever. People cheering when you first see Trump billboards and so forth.

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LOL I once had a guy sitting behind me animately bragging the entire way to his companion how he was gonna "hit it big" with a slot machine playing system he had devised - with only $80 in his pockets. I truly wanted to reach back and smack him with the magazine I was reading.

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Some of the riff raff can be kind of depressing on the ride from NYC to AC on the bus. I find that Academy has considerably less riff raff than Greyhound. For that reason I prefer it over Greyhound. But Academy is less reliable as it is not always on time. As far as the train goes...that would be nice. But it looks like it will not be that much faster and may not be very economical in terms of its price. Also doesn't seem like it has too much variety in terms of departure time.

Re: NY-AC Express Train Update from Phila. Inquirer
 

that reminds me of the one genius who told me the casino cheats
for example he said the casino puts different sized studs on the back of the cards in BJ so if the dealer needs a 6 for instance they can feel for one.
He also thought the dice were magically fixed in craps. He "proved" this by saying one time he bet on every number hitting but 6 and 6 hit.

Re: NY-AC Express Train Update from Phila. Inquirer
 

Maybe I'm just not very sensitive, but I've never found Greyhound bus to be objectionable. Sure, I'd prefer to be in hotel bed with a beautiful chick, but it's not like the idea of riding a bus disgusts me. I just take enough reading materials to last me two hours (you'll be sleeping on your way back).

Re: NY-AC Express Train Update from Phila. Inquirer
 

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[ QUOTE ]
I don't think that Amtrak regional fare is a good comparison, since it's a flat fair regardless of source and destination. People who go from NYC to Philly are a bit ripped off, since the same fare takes you from one end of NE corridor to the other.

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This is untrue. For example, the regional that departs New York Penn Station at 11:35 AM this Friday costs $61 to Philly and $98 to Washington DC.

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Hmm, I must've remembered wrong. I certainly do remember the fare from New York and Newark to Philly being the same.

Re: NY-AC Express Train Update from Phila. Inquirer
 

(Article founded by Poshua. Thanks!)

Published: Thursday, November 1, 2007

www.pressofatlanticcity.com

Atlantic City-New York City rail line behind schedule
By THOMAS BARLAS

Express trains designed to haul gamblers between Atlantic City and New York City will not leave the stations as planned next month.

Officials with two casinos involved in the project said Wednesday that the trains will not start running until sometime next spring. They did not provide a cause for the delay.

Keith Smith, president of Boyd Gaming Corp., a co-owner of Borgata Hotel Casino &amp; Spa, said during a conference call that the train service would not start until the second quarter of next year. He gave no further explanation.

The delay was confirmed by Borgata Senior Vice President Auggie Cipollini, who declined further comment.

Officials with two other agencies involved in the project, NJ Transit and the Casino Reinvestment Development Authority, or CRDA, were not available for comment.

Borgata, Harrah's Atlantic City and Caesars Atlantic City formed a partnership to partially fund a weekend-only, dedicated line between New York's Penn Station and the Atlantic City Rail Terminal.

The partnership, called Atlantic City Express Service, or ACES, will spend $15 million to buy eight bi-level, luxury rail cars and is splitting the $4 million in operating costs with the CRDA.

The CRDA also will spend $4.5 million to lease three diesel locomotives during the three-year test run.

The Friday-Saturday-Sunday runs would usher casino visitors from Manhattan to the resort in well-appointed rail cars designed to get them in an Atlantic City state of mind. The trip, about 2 hours, 40 minutes with one-stop, would likely cost riders about $100, although casino officials say price is not the key factor.

Casino officials said the train would target New York City residents with cash to spare and who enjoy visiting the gaming halls but want an easier way to get to and from the facilities than driving.

A dedicated line between the two cities was tried before but NJ Transit ditched the six-year trial in 1995 after concluding the little-used "Gambler's Express" was a financial failure.

Re: NY-AC Express Train Update from Phila. Inquirer
 

Is it really just delayed, or is it them stalling before officially canning the project? The numbers just don't add up to make this thing viable, I'm afraid.