400NL - Gettin\' saucy
 

Villain is a solid 17/13, hero has been running aroud 24/20 and should have a solid image as well.

You like? I'm obviously repping a very narrow range of legit hands, however I think this range is larger than the range that he can continue with unless he thinks I'm completely FOS.

Full Tilt Poker, $2/$4 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 5 Players
LegoPoker Hand History Converter

Hero (BB): $774.70
UTG: $250.40
CO: $880.60
BTN: $565.90
SB: $593.35

Pre-Flop: J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (BB)
3 folds, <font color="red">SB raises to $14</font>, Hero calls $10

Flop: ($28) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">SB bets $24</font>, Hero calls $24

Turn: ($76) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">SB bets $55</font>, Hero raises to $190

Re: 400NL - Gettin\' saucy
 

works for me

Re: 400NL - Gettin\' saucy
 

How often do you think villain is 2barreling that turn card?

Re: 400NL - Gettin\' saucy
 

I do like this

Even though I probably wouldn't believe you at the tables if I was in his shoes I don't think I'd have the balls to shove over the top with JJ, he's oop it's an ugly spot for him and you get more than enough folds

Re: 400NL - Gettin\' saucy
 

[ QUOTE ]
I do like this

Even though I probably wouldn't believe you at the tables if I was in his shoes I don't think I'd have the balls to shove over the top with JJ, he's oop it's an ugly spot for him and you get more than enough folds

[/ QUOTE ]

don't really see why you'd play JJ this way as villain if you though hero was fos

Re: 400NL - Gettin\' saucy
 

[ QUOTE ]
How often do you think villain is 2barreling that turn card?

[/ QUOTE ]

a lot

Re: 400NL - Gettin\' saucy
 

sauce probably leads the turn.

Re: 400NL - Gettin\' saucy
 

are you serious tannen?

i dont like this at all and i would felt TT + against u and maybe any pair

you are right, you are repping a narrow range...but you are also wrong, there is no way its wider than his range for continuing

Re: 400NL - Gettin\' saucy
 

make it 199 and he folds even more

Re: 400NL - Gettin\' saucy
 

don't know what to say other than that i'm sure op has you beat the majority of the time he takes this line. op is only repping a few hands, but all of them are near-nut holdings. if this is the first time op has made a play like this on the villain, it should be hard for the villain to continue with almost all of the hands in his range.

Re: 400NL - Gettin\' saucy
 

[ QUOTE ]
don't know what to say other than that i'm sure op has you beat the majority of the time he takes this line. op is only repping a few hands, but all of them are near-nut holdings. if this is the first time op has made a play like this on the villain, it should be hard for the villain to continue with almost all of the hands in his range.

[/ QUOTE ]

disagree...bc his range is so narrow i think he is floating more often than he has a hand that is consistent with this range...keep in mind he cant even rep a good A

Re: 400NL - Gettin\' saucy
 

i know. op's line only reps trips or a boat. but i don't see why, as the villain, you'd put op on an elaborate float/bluff without a read that makes such a play likely. op noted that his image is "solid."

Re: 400NL - Gettin\' saucy
 

Agree that it seems pretty tough for OP to be representing an A here, what holding can he have that takes this line and satisfies this condition?

Re: 400NL - Gettin\' saucy
 

[ QUOTE ]
Agree that it seems pretty tough for OP to be representing an A here, what holding can he have that takes this line and satisfies this condition?

[/ QUOTE ]

any reasonable 9 or 33 THAT IS IT
tannen, it depends...but i feel like his floating range is larger than the range he is repping...this gets even worse if he raises the flop with a 9, which may VERY likely be that case

also, i think this is a horrible board to float
and this is a bad turn for your float...the A smacked his range and he prolly isnt folding a good A to you and souldnt be folding any A to you

Re: 400NL - Gettin\' saucy
 

I'd like this better vs someone who wasn't 17/13. That being said, this probably works a fair amount vs a nit with mediocre hand reading skills, but it's pretty unlikely that he has air here.

Re: 400NL - Gettin\' saucy
 

Hate it. I'd rather call and bet if checked to on the river if I'm gonna bluff. Do you actually raise an ace here when you do have it?

Re: 400NL - Gettin\' saucy
 

I would much rather bluff raise the flop than float.

Re: 400NL - Gettin\' saucy
 

dont like your plan for this hand on the flop, ace is obv a very good card for this move but you are really hoping a higher type card come so u can pull this move. Its so much easier to pull this move when the flop is AAx as people will always but you on the ace

Re: 400NL - Gettin\' saucy
 

basically just depends how often your opponent double barrels and whether he can hand read or not.

if he is mediocre hand reader and double barrels a lot then this is good. i definitely run this type of play now and then vs tagfish and bad nits.

Re: 400NL - Gettin\' saucy
 

[ QUOTE ]
basically just depends how often your opponent double barrels and whether he can hand read or not.

if he is mediocre hand reader and double barrels a lot then this is good. i definitely run this type of play now and then vs tagfish and bad nits.

[/ QUOTE ]

are you saying hero isn't representing a hand, or just that the range of hands hero is representing is narrow?

and if it's the second one, do you think it's always bad to bluff when you can only represent a few hands?

Re: 400NL - Gettin\' saucy
 

looks good. being a little deeper is your ally in spots like this.

Re: 400NL - Gettin\' saucy
 

dont like the flop call ... [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
and the ace fits perfect intos SB raise range.
and the ace seems to not scare SB, he fires the second barrel...
and you have no outs if he calls for the river ...
but maybe you have some fold equity, depending on your opponent, hard to say on the green table...

Re: 400NL - Gettin\' saucy
 

How about viewing this as an algebra problem. Let x be the % of time you have trips or a boat in this spot, and let y be the % of time you fire a second bullet as a bluff on the river.

If he decides to call you down all the way, his EV is:
x(-550) + y(675) + (1-x-y)(275)

If he decides to call on the turn and fold to a bet on the river, his EV is:
(x+y)(-150) + (1-x-y)(275)

You need to find an x and y such that both of these come out negative. I whipped those formulas up really quickly and the details may be off, but you get the idea.

I guess you have to account for the possibility of him using a mixed strategy too, but this is too much math for me right now.

Re: 400NL - Gettin\' saucy
 

id make a smaller raise because this only works when villain doesnt have an ace which is most of the time

Re: 400NL - Gettin\' saucy
 

lets assume SB raises with Ax, Kx, 22+:
he has around 40% of the time an ace there or a 9
lets also assume he calls the turn in this case 80% of the time. we give it up on the river if he calls.
he folds 68% of the time we have 131*0,68 = 89
he calls 0,4*0,8 = 32 % of the time we lose (131+190)*0,32=-103, giving a total of -14.