10/25 NL live did I play AA right?
 

Foxwoods 10/25, 10-handed.

Villain is a careful player who thinks, but doesn't seem to be super strong. His image of me is that I don't play many hands but can raise with a wide range of hands preflop, and I play well after the flop.

Villain has 6000, I cover.

I am in MP with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].

Preflop
One limper and I raise to 125. All fold to villain in the BB who calls. Original limper folds.

Flop (275): K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Villain checks, I bet 200, and villain calls. At this point I put him on AK, KQ, QQ, JJ, 44, 55, with a small chance of something strange.

Turn (675): 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Villain leads out for 300, and I decide to just call. Would anyone raise here? I think his most likely hands at this point are KQ and AK, but other stuff is definitely possible.

River (1275): J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
Villain checks fairly quickly, and I decide I am going to represent a bluff. I will pretend to be trying to represent KJ or JJ while holding 56 or 66. I bet 850. What do you think?

Re: 10/25 NL live did I play AA right?
 

dont really understand what your saying but def bet

Re: 10/25 NL live did I play AA right?
 

u dont need to rep a bluff, hes calling with king anyway

Re: 10/25 NL live did I play AA right?
 

one thousand dollars

Re: 10/25 NL live did I play AA right?
 

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u dont need to rep a bluff, hes calling with king anyway

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I know it isn't so important here, but if he has KQ then I do need to make him think I am bluffing. Seems pretty clear that there is no hand worse than KQ that I would bet for value.

Re: 10/25 NL live did I play AA right?
 

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u dont need to rep a bluff, hes calling with king anyway

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I know it isn't so important here, but if he has KQ then I do need to make him think I am bluffing. Seems pretty clear that there is no hand worse than KQ that I would bet for value.

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Whats the diff. if he has AK or KQ?
Your hand is NOT a bluff...if anything its decent value bet?

Re: 10/25 NL live did I play AA right?
 

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u dont need to rep a bluff, hes calling with king anyway

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I know it isn't so important here, but if he has KQ then I do need to make him think I am bluffing. Seems pretty clear that there is no hand worse than KQ that I would bet for value.

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Whats the diff. if he has AK or KQ?
Your hand is NOT a bluff...if anything its decent value bet?

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Obviously my bet is for value. My point was just that I need him to think that I could be bluffing.

Re: 10/25 NL live did I play AA right?
 

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u dont need to rep a bluff, hes calling with king anyway

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I know it isn't so important here, but if he has KQ then I do need to make him think I am bluffing. Seems pretty clear that there is no hand worse than KQ that I would bet for value.

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Whats the diff. if he has AK or KQ?
Your hand is NOT a bluff...if anything its decent value bet?

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Obviously my bet is for value. My point was just that I need him to think that I could be bluffing.

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All kidding aside ,so if you want him to "think" you are bluffing and he shoves the river.......I assume you then auto call?

I am not understanding what you are trying to accomplish here, with your thought process?

Why not just insta-shove yourself instead of betting $800,if you want the same outcome of him thinking you are bluffing?

Wouldnt he be MORE inclined to call then,compared to just betting,or are you trying to induce him to raise/shove the river after your bet?

[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Re: 10/25 NL live did I play AA right?
 

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Obviously my bet is for value. My point was just that I need him to think that I could be bluffing.

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I'm pretty sure you achieve that whenever you bet the river here. He's going to think you could be bluffing. Anyone is going to have to assign you a range of hands with which you could have played the way you did, and it's entirely possible that, by the river, you're no good. Thus, it really has nothing to do with you at this point (unless you're some sort of reverse tell expert who can induce fake soul reading). I think a $1000 or maybe $900 river bet is the way to go. I don't think $800 maxes out your value.

Re: 10/25 NL live did I play AA right?
 

you're thinking too many levels above yourself and your opponents. but betting 850 is good here, and I would probably fold to a raise

Re: 10/25 NL live did I play AA right?
 

[ QUOTE ]
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u dont need to rep a bluff, hes calling with king anyway

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I know it isn't so important here, but if he has KQ then I do need to make him think I am bluffing. Seems pretty clear that there is no hand worse than KQ that I would bet for value.

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Whats the diff. if he has AK or KQ?
Your hand is NOT a bluff...if anything its decent value bet?

[/ QUOTE ]

Obviously my bet is for value. My point was just that I need him to think that I could be bluffing.

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All kidding aside ,so if you want him to "think" you are bluffing and he shoves the river.......I assume you then auto call?

I am not understanding what you are trying to accomplish here, with your thought process?

Why not just insta-shove yourself instead of betting $800,if you want the same outcome of him thinking you are bluffing?

Wouldnt he be MORE inclined to call then,compared to just betting,or are you trying to induce him to raise/shove the river after your bet?

[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

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I'll try to be more clear with the reasoning. When he checks the river, he most likely has a K, but there is a small chance that he is somehow beating me. Both him and I know that if I value bet this river, then I must have AK or better. So if any bet will look to him like a value bet, then I may not want to bet because I could only get called by the few better hands he may have (with the exception of AK which would be calling to split). So it is important that my range includes at least some hands that I would bet as a bluff, in order for me to bet. Luckily, 56 and 66 are in my range and I would bluff about 850 with those, so I can go ahead and bet the 850. Let me know if you see a flaw in this logic.

Re: 10/25 NL live did I play AA right?
 

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I'll try to be more clear with the reasoning. When he checks the river, he most likely has a K, but there is a small chance that he is somehow beating me. Both him and I know that if I value bet this river, then I must have AK or better. So if any bet will look to him like a value bet, then I may not want to bet because I could only get called by the few better hands he may have (with the exception of AK which would be calling to split). So it is important that my range includes at least some hands that I would bet as a bluff, in order for me to bet. Luckily, 56 and 66 are in my range and I would bluff about 850 with those, so I can go ahead and bet the 850. Let me know if you see a flaw in this logic.

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If you really think there's zero chance he's calling you with a worse hand, then you've answered your own question already:

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Villain is a careful player who thinks, but doesn't seem to be super strong.

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If he's really a careful player and not super strong, then he'll fold his KQ to your bet. But, given that this player is not strong, and won't come back over your AA with a bluff, then I think it's a mistake not to make the value bet. AK calls, 2 pair hands are unlikely given your assessment of the player and your assessment of his assessment of you, and sets probably come back over your bet, giving you an easy fold because, again, he's "not strong."

Re: 10/25 NL live did I play AA right?
 

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I'll try to be more clear with the reasoning. When he checks the river, he most likely has a K, but there is a small chance that he is somehow beating me. Both him and I know that if I value bet this river, then I must have AK or better. So if any bet will look to him like a value bet, then I may not want to bet because I could only get called by the few better hands he may have (with the exception of AK which would be calling to split). So it is important that my range includes at least some hands that I would bet as a bluff, in order for me to bet. Luckily, 56 and 66 are in my range and I would bluff about 850 with those, so I can go ahead and bet the 850. Let me know if you see a flaw in this logic.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you really think there's zero chance he's calling you with a worse hand, then you've answered your own question already:

[ QUOTE ]
Villain is a careful player who thinks, but doesn't seem to be super strong.

[/ QUOTE ]

If he's really a careful player and not super strong, then he'll fold his KQ to your bet. But, given that this player is not strong, and won't come back over your AA with a bluff, then I think it's a mistake not to make the value bet. AK calls, 2 pair hands are unlikely given your assessment of the player and your assessment of his assessment of you, and sets probably come back over your bet, giving you an easy fold because, again, he's "not strong."

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In this case he definitely can call with a worse hand and I definitely should bet. I just wanted to lay out the reasoning that led me to this conclusion.

Re: 10/25 NL live did I play AA right?
 

mrstinky,

your including of you need to rep a bluff is silly. ANy time anyone bets for value they need to be able to rep a bluff or the opponent could fold every single time. PPL are confused because it is so standard and obvious that its silly you wrote about it.

Re: 10/25 NL live did I play AA right?
 

[ QUOTE ]
mrstinky,

your including of you need to rep a bluff is silly. ANy time anyone bets for value they need to be able to rep a bluff or the opponent could fold every single time. PPL are confused because it is so standard and obvious that its silly you wrote about it.

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But this isn't true. If the villain thinks he can beat some value bets, then you can value bet without representing a bluff. I agree though that there is nothing deep here and it is all pretty basic stuff. Just wanted to double check that I played the hand OK.

Re: 10/25 NL live did I play AA right?
 

just give us the results!!!!!! come on!

Re: 10/25 NL live did I play AA right?
 

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just give us the results!!!!!! come on!

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He called and I showed my cards and he mucked his hand.

Re: 10/25 NL live did I play AA right?
 

I think the range you give him on the flop is way too tight. I'd be tempted to raise/fold the turn here. River is the easiest bet ever, and I'd make it a bit bigger like $1000.

Re: 10/25 NL live did I play AA right?
 

tough hand.

Re: 10/25 NL live did I play AA right?
 

lol you bet this everytime.