10/20 hu river facing 2x pot bet
 

clownshoes bets pot as a cbet most of the time in both normal and RR pots, checks turn a fair amount. this is the first overbet of the match i think.

Full Tilt Poker, $10/$20 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 2 Players
LegoPoker Hand History Converter

BB: $3,874.50
Hero (SB): $3,487.50

Pre-Flop: A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (SB)
<font color="red">Hero raises to $60</font>, <font color="red">BB raises to $180</font>, Hero calls $120

Flop: ($360) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">BB bets $360</font>, Hero calls $360

Turn: ($1,080) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
BB checks, Hero checks

River: ($1,080) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">BB bets $2,020</font>

Re: 10/20 hu river facing 2x pot bet
 

seems like easy fold, this is AA, 88, 22, 33, 77 or 45 100% of the time. A8 too.

Re: 10/20 hu river facing 2x pot bet
 

maybe im a fish but i call.
he might be out leveling me, but basically there should be no "real" hand you could have here.. Theoretically the best possible hand you "should" have here is a rivered 2pr (A7)

that and the fact its 2 PAIR. i dunno about you but it's pretty dam hard to get 2 PAIR, let alone lose with it.. I wouldnt be surprised to see some awkwardly played AK/total bluff

Given I called, (and say i lost) i'd be more inclined to fold in the future.. I am just starting to get into HU, but i dont mind the image of a station at the beginning of a match.

Re: 10/20 hu river facing 2x pot bet
 

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seems like easy fold, this is AA, 88, 22, 33, 77 or 45 100% of the time. A8 too.

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i think this might be a call tho: think he's turning KK into a bluff here hoping you'll fold A2.

Re: 10/20 hu river facing 2x pot bet
 

His range is so polarized that your hand is nothing but a bluffcatcher... do whatever you would do with 99...

Re: 10/20 hu river facing 2x pot bet
 

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seems like easy fold, this is AA, 88, 22, 33, 77 or 45 100% of the time. A8 too.

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i think this might be a call tho: think he's turning KK into a bluff here hoping you'll fold A2.

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krantz are you joking or serious? seriously

Re: 10/20 hu river facing 2x pot bet
 

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His range is so polarized that your hand is nothing but a bluffcatcher... do whatever you would do with 99...

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no i dont think our hand = 99 here at all

i think people just love to say "polarized" when analyzing hand ranges

Re: 10/20 hu river facing 2x pot bet
 

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seems like easy fold, this is AA, 88, 22, 33, 77 or 45 100% of the time. A8 too.

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i think this might be a call tho: think he's turning KK into a bluff here hoping you'll fold A2.

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krantz are you joking or serious? seriously

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seriously joking

i would strongly consider shoving here and never ever ever fold

Re: 10/20 hu river facing 2x pot bet
 

Just wanted to add, i Dont think your hand is like 99 Here

When i play people who can read hands well, i'd sometimes make this bet with something like AQ JUST because some people will think my range is so polarized(nuts or nothing), or that they'd think id valuebet something smaller with AQ, against certain people i do expect to get looked up lighter (like 99 haha)

also another reason for making an overbet like this is it freezes people up
like this post, some people are saying FOLD and you practically have the nuts HU, given that, if someone makes this bet on the river if your folding a7 your folding 95% of your range given the prior street actions to this bet.

Re: 10/20 hu river facing 2x pot bet
 

I agree that people use the word "polarized" too much, but this is a situation where it definitely applies. When players fire 2xPSB on the river, they are not merging their ranges, betting for thin value, or turning their hands with showdown value into bluffs. This is a hand that beats your hand, or it is a big bluff...

Re: 10/20 hu river facing 2x pot bet
 

All-in, it's only 900 more or so.

Re: 10/20 hu river facing 2x pot bet
 

krantz posted on my account so i posted on his. i honestly think you should shove, and your hand is not 99 here because it's absolutely possible he's going for value with worse (possibly even with as weak as AK) and once he does nobody ever folds in this spot even though they know they're cooked.

Re: 10/20 hu river facing 2x pot bet
 

Jesus... if I'm shoving the river here for 2xPOT with TPTK with no relevent metagame issues, I'm doing it as a bluff..

Re: 10/20 hu river facing 2x pot bet
 

Maybe I don't bluff rivers enough and my percieved ranges are too tight...

Re: 10/20 hu river facing 2x pot bet
 

I guess 87dd is pretty possible too.. hmm

Re: 10/20 hu river facing 2x pot bet
 

call clal call

(def do not shove)

Re: 10/20 hu river facing 2x pot bet
 

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call clal call

(def do not shove)

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if you're not shoving you should fold here because nobody ever folds in this spot

Re: 10/20 hu river facing 2x pot bet
 

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call clal call

(def do not shove)

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if you're not shoving you should fold here because nobody ever folds in this spot

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Re: 10/20 hu river facing 2x pot bet
 

What?

That makes no sense.

If you shove it is because you think we are &gt;50% vs his valuebetting range (the range which he will call a shove w/). I think we are pretty close to 50%, but combined w/ the overlay from the pot, and the chance he is bluffing, means it's a call.

Re: 10/20 hu river facing 2x pot bet
 

yeah i'm with ansky.. no reason for us to not think we're 40 % likely to win, thus calling the bet but not wanting to shove.

Re: 10/20 hu river facing 2x pot bet
 

wow folding is insane, call all day

Re: 10/20 hu river facing 2x pot bet
 

ur all fish, i had AA77ds

Re: 10/20 hu river facing 2x pot bet
 

call and shove are pretty close, i always tend toward calling but i can be convinced otherwise.

no way its a fold. also, i really dont think our hand = 99 here.

Re: 10/20 hu river facing 2x pot bet
 

Think I'd have to call here

Re: 10/20 hu river facing 2x pot bet
 

i think this is really close, i always interpret 2x pot from stone cold donks as the pure nuts, but i'd still call, and not go all in.

Re: 10/20 hu river facing 2x pot bet
 

teleport using your staff of teleportation that will solve the hand.

Re: 10/20 hu river facing 2x pot bet
 

i agree w/ just calling

Re: 10/20 hu river facing 2x pot bet
 

well krantz was the only one that was right and the rest of you are all terrible. i flatted and he had 54.

i agree w/ aejones' line of thinking that 2x pot from people who aren't good is almost NEVER a bluff. but at the same time, i can never really be that strong here at all given how i play (super rare for me to flat call/check behind turn with a nut hand) and the stack sizes etc. but i dont know if that even applies to a player like this because he probably doesn't even try to put me on a hand range when he value bets.

Re: 10/20 hu river facing 2x pot bet
 

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well krantz was the only one that was right and the rest of you are all terrible. i flatted and he had 54.

i agree w/ aejones' line of thinking that 2x pot from people who aren't good is almost NEVER a bluff. but at the same time, i can never really be that strong here at all given how i play (super rare for me to flat call/check behind turn with a nut hand) and the stack sizes etc. but i dont know if that even applies to a player like this because he probably doesn't even try to put me on a hand range when he value bets.

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you could prob fold to this guy's overbets in the future after seeing this, he's likely not thinking enough to start bluffing w/them

Re: 10/20 hu river facing 2x pot bet
 

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well krantz and Lefort!!!! were the only ones that were right and the rest of you are all terrible. i flatted and he had 54.


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Re: 10/20 hu river facing 2x pot bet
 

EC,

We have to think hard about what his check on 4th tells you.

Once you've arrived at his river bet of 2x pot, I think you can look back at his check on 4th and deduce that he does not have air, 99-AA or A9-AK. In my experience, if he's decided to float the flop with these, he has every reason to double barrel here to really figure out where he stands with you.

Moreover, it is v. unlikely he has A8/A2/A3 here, since he should be putting you on an A himself, in which case he should be both value betting and protecting his top pair against a potential 2 pair draw out.

Tough hand HU. I ultimately agree that you need to call on 5th in this particular instance, but if you had a good line on the villain that helped you deduce his fishy check on 4th, I could see how you would fold in the same circumstance, different hand, here in the future.

At least now you know he re-popped you with 45 PF [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: 10/20 hu river facing 2x pot bet
 

Definitely do not shove. I would call here and hope he doesn't have 77.