(2/4) KK deep - go broke with 1 pair?
 

Villain is like a 85/15 and very bad. He plays too many hands preflop but seems to understand the concept of position. He min-3bets often on the button (saw him do it once with K8s) and knows how to build pots in position. Out of position he seems fairly passive but seems to fold often / does not make big call downs.

Full Tilt Poker, $2/$4 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LegoPoker Hand History Converter

SB: $978.30
BB: $471
UTG: $398
MP: $1,588.80
CO: $3,346.15
Hero (BTN): $1,702.30

Pre-Flop: K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (BTN)
2 folds, CO calls $4, <font color="red">Hero raises to $24</font>, 2 folds, <font color="red">CO raises to $44</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $200</font>, CO calls $156

Flop: ($406) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">CO bets $200</font>, Hero calls $200

Turn: ($806) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
CO checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $600 and calls a shove?</font>

Flop I just called because I put him on garbage and being this deep, I also don't think I get paid off in the small chance he does have 99-QQ. What do you guys think of my turn bet sizing? (I have ~700 left)

Re: (2/4) KK deep - go broke with 1 pair?
 

im not very good w/ stacks this deep but is a turn check behind terrible?

Re: (2/4) KK deep - go broke with 1 pair?
 

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im not very good w/ stacks this deep but is a turn check behind terrible?

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85/15

Re: (2/4) KK deep - go broke with 1 pair?
 

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im not very good w/ stacks this deep but is a turn check behind terrible?

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85/15

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jesus didnt even see that lol

yeah b/c is good

against a tag what would we do here tho?

Re: (2/4) KK deep - go broke with 1 pair?
 

I bet a bit bigger on the flop. I honestly don't hate a turn check despite his stats.....If you bet, you obviously have to call a shove here.

Re: (2/4) KK deep - go broke with 1 pair?
 

also, I'd definitely check vs a tag

Re: (2/4) KK deep - go broke with 1 pair?
 

[ QUOTE ]
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im not very good w/ stacks this deep but is a turn check behind terrible?

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85/15

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Flop: ($406) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">CO bets $200</font>,

changes quite a bit after he calls a 5-bet preflop. i def like checking the turn, id rather keep bombing away all 3 streets if he just c/c all the way

Re: (2/4) KK deep - go broke with 1 pair?
 

wow, didn't notice he donked the flop......that does change things a bit. The described player is always checking a set on the flop/5 betting AA preflop, so I would probably just go ahead and raise the flop with the intention of playing for stacks. Calling is fine too obviously, but given his stats I think raising is slightly better. As played, bet/call the turn looks good, but I'd make it like 500, and try and give him the installment plan, while praying that he didn't hit his TTT on the turn.

Re: (2/4) KK deep - go broke with 1 pair?
 

I'm thinking KK is the nuts vs this guy. I'd raise the flop no matter what. (but that's more my style than anything, I do understand your play)

The bet is good for me, call the shove and hope for the best.

Re: (2/4) KK deep - go broke with 1 pair?
 

plz dont say u bet600/folded this turn, man that'll piss me off

this is such a sick spot, check behind on turn vs tag is def ok but ur bankin on tag checking turn to you

Re: (2/4) KK deep - go broke with 1 pair?
 

this board is not scary at all
just find a way to get all the money in

Re: (2/4) KK deep - go broke with 1 pair?
 

I think you should check the turn and bet full pot/call the river. The pot is already 200bb big. Control it.

Re: (2/4) KK deep - go broke with 1 pair?
 

do not try to control this pot

Re: (2/4) KK deep - go broke with 1 pair?
 

You really think villain stacks of with JJ/QQ?

Re: (2/4) KK deep - go broke with 1 pair?
 

he probably stacks off with 87

Re: (2/4) KK deep - go broke with 1 pair?
 

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You really think villain stacks of with JJ/QQ?


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HE'S 85/15!! do you think he DOESN'T stack off with JJ/QQ?? I think there's a damn good chance he does.

Re: (2/4) KK deep - go broke with 1 pair?
 

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he probably stacks off with 87

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fo real

Re: (2/4) KK deep - go broke with 1 pair?
 

dude read the OP. This type of player plays all sorts of junk pre but when the bets get big tightens up ALOT. I think at best you get one more PSB out of him. Plus if you bet turn and he raises it is a sick sick spot.

Re: (2/4) KK deep - go broke with 1 pair?
 

[ QUOTE ]
dude read the OP. This type of player plays all sorts of junk pre but when the bets get big tightens up ALOT. I think at best you get one more PSB out of him. Plus if you bet turn and he raises it is a sick sick spot.

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HE'S PLAYING 85% OF HIS HANDS HYACHACHACHACHA

Re: (2/4) KK deep - go broke with 1 pair?
 

jesus christ hero is 400bb deep guys. CO covers. give him SOME credit he has 800bb. He prob [censored] around preflop because most people cant adjust to his wacky style. aka he metagame owns regs.

Re: (2/4) KK deep - go broke with 1 pair?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
dude read the OP. This type of player plays all sorts of junk pre but when the bets get big tightens up ALOT. I think at best you get one more PSB out of him. Plus if you bet turn and he raises it is a sick sick spot.

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HE'S PLAYING 85% OF HIS HANDS HYACHACHACHACHA

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This is a pretty good indicator that he doesn't like to fold would you care to disagree?

Re: (2/4) KK deep - go broke with 1 pair?
 

whatever i said my piece

Re: (2/4) KK deep - go broke with 1 pair?
 

I would be willing to put money down that the only way hero is beat here is if this guy has exactly TTT fwiw.

Re: (2/4) KK deep - go broke with 1 pair?
 

1. If you aren't going to call a shove on the turn, don't bet $600.

2. I think villain's PF limp/reraise/call is a pretty weird line for almost any hand. Based on your postflop read, I think it's likely that you are very much behind.

Re: (2/4) KK deep - go broke with 1 pair?
 

he could show up with 88,33,22,1010,jj, and QQ and possibly AA if he is better than OP gives him credit for. And i suppose the other KK

Re: (2/4) KK deep - go broke with 1 pair?
 

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he could show up with 88,33,22,1010,jj, and QQ and possibly AA if he is better than OP gives him credit for. And i suppose the other KK

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My money is on AA or TT, FWIW.

Re: (2/4) KK deep - go broke with 1 pair?
 

In my experience these types of players never donk the flop with a set if they are not the last one to put in a bet preflop, which is why I don't think he ever has a set. I'm not saying it's impossible just extreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeemely unlikely.

unless it's TT obv, and this deep I can't see this guy not putting in a 5th bet with AA.

Re: (2/4) KK deep - go broke with 1 pair?
 

results plz

Re: (2/4) KK deep - go broke with 1 pair?
 

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results plz

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Re: (2/4) KK deep - go broke with 1 pair?
 

Bet and pray he has AT!

Re: (2/4) KK deep - go broke with 1 pair?
 

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I would be willing to put money down that the only way hero is beat here is if this guy has exactly TTT fwiw.

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agreed

Re: (2/4) KK deep - go broke with 1 pair?
 

[ QUOTE ]
dude read the OP. This type of player plays all sorts of junk pre but when the bets get big tightens up ALOT. I think at best you get one more PSB out of him. Plus if you bet turn and he raises it is a sick sick spot.

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i dont agree, he's still 85(!)/x...these people do not think rationally
if i bet turn and he raises i get a hard-on

Re: (2/4) KK deep - go broke with 1 pair?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Villain is like a 85/15 and very bad. He plays too many hands preflop but seems to understand the concept of position. He min-3bets often on the button (saw him do it once with K8s) and knows how to build pots in position. Out of position he seems fairly passive but seems to fold often / does not make big call downs.



[/ QUOTE ]

i think there is a better chance of this read not being 100% accurate than the chance of us being behind here

Re: (2/4) KK deep - go broke with 1 pair?
 

results???

Re: (2/4) KK deep - go broke with 1 pair?
 

Yeah we're 400bb's deep, but we managed to get a huge chunk of the effective stacks in pre in a spot where this guy can have almost anything, so it's really not playing that crazy deep. I also agree that he rarely has AA, as I'd expect this guy to just keep raising pre with them. I probably just jack it up on the flop and try to felt it, expecting him to come along with a pretty big range.

Re: (2/4) KK deep - go broke with 1 pair?
 

you arent that deep really thanks to your expert pf play.

Re: (2/4) KK deep - go broke with 1 pair?
 

RESULTS

This is from the actual hand history with screennames replaced:

[ QUOTE ]

Dealt to Hero [Kd Ks]
W folds
X folds
Villain calls $4
Hero raises to $24
Y folds
Z folds
Villain raises to $44
Hero has 15 seconds left to act
Hero has requested TIME
Hero raises to $200
Villain calls $156
*** FLOP *** [8d 3h 2c]
Villain bets $200
Hero has 15 seconds left to act
Hero has requested TIME
Hero calls $200
*** TURN *** [8d 3h 2c] [Ts]
Villain checks
Hero has 15 seconds left to act
Hero has requested TIME
Hero bets $600
Villain: wth
Villain has 15 seconds left to act
Villain: i have a set of 3's and your betting 600
Villain is sitting out
Villain has timed out
Villain folds
Uncalled bet of $600 returned to Hero
Hero mucks
Hero wins the pot ($803)


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I was panicking like crazy when he said that.

Edited to add: because this was a hand from earlier that session

[ QUOTE ]

Seat 1: LeNewbian ($727)
Seat 2: hAAppy Monkey ($505)
Seat 3: Ihateboys ($854.80)
Seat 4: browerkid ($1,557.10)
Seat 5: Villain ($4,104.05)
Seat 6: Hero ($400)
Villain posts the small blind of $2
Hero posts the big blind of $4
The button is in seat #4
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero [6h 5c]
LeNewbian folds
hAAppy Monkey has 15 seconds left to act
hAAppy Monkey raises to $14
Ihateboys folds
browerkid folds
Villain raises to $24
Hero folds
hAAppy Monkey raises to $80
Villain: hmm
Villain has 15 seconds left to act
Villain: k/8 suited
Villain calls $56
*** FLOP *** [4s Js 8s]
Villain checks
hAAppy Monkey checks
*** TURN *** [4s Js 8s] [5h]
Villain checks
hAAppy Monkey checks
*** RIVER *** [4s Js 8s 5h] [As]
Villain checks
hAAppy Monkey checks
*** SHOW DOWN ***
hAAppy Monkey shows [Ah Qh] a pair of Aces
Villain mucks
hAAppy Monkey wins the pot ($161) with a pair of Aces
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $164 | Rake $3
Board: [4s Js 8s 5h As]
Seat 1: LeNewbian didn't bet (folded)
Seat 2: hAAppy Monkey showed [Ah Qh] and won ($161) with a pair of Aces
Seat 3: Ihateboys didn't bet (folded)
Seat 4: browerkid (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 5: Villain (small blind) mucked [8h Kh] - a pair of Eights
Seat 6: Hero (big blind) folded before the Flop

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Re: (2/4) KK deep - go broke with 1 pair?
 

pwned

Re: (2/4) KK deep - go broke with 1 pair?
 

lol

Re: (2/4) KK deep - go broke with 1 pair?
 

wow.