How many 38+ vpip do you want at your table?
 

I seem to do better if there is only 2 or 3 players with a vpip of 38 or higher at the table.
If it is only me and 4 or 5 players with a VPIP of 38+ I struggle.
It only seems relevant in a 5 or 6 handed game, while in a 4 handed game I do fine.

Thoughts?

Re: How many 38+ vpip do you want at your table?
 

I generally like 5.

Re: How many 38+ vpip do you want at your table?
 

i like 9

Re: How many 38+ vpip do you want at your table?
 

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i like 9

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I do also, but this is a sh forum.

Re: How many 38+ vpip do you want at your table?
 

Ideally I want the 3 on my right to be >38 and the 2 on my left to be <24.

Re: How many 38+ vpip do you want at your table?
 

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Ideally I want the 3 on my right to be >38 and the 2 on my left to be <24.

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I hope you dont believe that regardless of what kind +38vpip guys we are talking about.

You want as many idiots at your game. It will always be more profitable to have a 40/0 guy to your left than a 24/17 guy. He is gonna make more mistakes.

Obviously you dont want too many 40/30 guys to your left as they will make life hell for you.

Also, anyone who think that players with vpip +38 are bad by definition. Think again!

Re: How many 38+ vpip do you want at your table?
 

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Also, anyone who think that players with vpip +38 are bad by definition. Think again!

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This was my first thought. Table full of 40/20/1.5/38 guys. Nah I think I'll pass.

Re: How many 38+ vpip do you want at your table?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ideally I want the 3 on my right to be >38 and the 2 on my left to be <24.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hope you dont believe that regardless of what kind +38vpip guys we are talking about.

You want as many idiots at your game. It will always be more profitable to have a 40/0 guy to your left than a 24/17 guy. He is gonna make more mistakes.

Obviously you dont want too many 40/30 guys to your left as they will make life hell for you.

Also, anyone who think that players with vpip +38 are bad by definition. Think again!

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I know many 38+ VPIP aren't that bad, but regardless of how tough they might play postflop, I'll make money from them when I have position. It would be nice to have some 40/0 retarded guys on my left, but I don't think that's very realistic these days. A guy with a ~40 VPIP is much more likely to be 40/25 and a pain to deal with postflop. I'd definately rather have a 24/17 on my left than a 40/25. Especially when I have players that are too loose on my right, since I'd like to isolate them as much as possible.

Re: How many 38+ vpip do you want at your table?
 

Yesterday i had 5 Fish on a 30/60 6max table. The flop was almost always 3-5 handed and average vpip was 63.
the pots are huge and variance is quite high with this type of players.


Do you guys think its more profitable than let's say 3 retards to your right and 2 TAGs to your left?

Re: How many 38+ vpip do you want at your table?
 

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Do you guys think its more profitable than let's say 3 retards to your right and 2 TAGs to your left?


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Your long term winrate at a table is determined by the sum of mistakes your opponents make. Substituting players who makes a lot of mistakes with players who makes fewer mistakes can never ever be good - unless you suck at adjusting.

Re: How many 38+ vpip do you want at your table?
 

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[ QUOTE ]
Do you guys think its more profitable than let's say 3 retards to your right and 2 TAGs to your left?


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Your long term winrate at a table is determined by the sum of mistakes your opponents make. Substituting players who makes a lot of mistakes with players who makes fewer mistakes can never ever be good - unless you suck at adjusting.

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Absolutely true, and I agree with your point.

But one possible small exception to note is that when the guy on your left cold-calls you a little too much, it is possible that his mistake takes from both of your equities and passes them to the blinds.

Re: How many 38+ vpip do you want at your table?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Do you guys think its more profitable than let's say 3 retards to your right and 2 TAGs to your left?


[/ QUOTE ]



Your long term winrate at a table is determined by the sum of mistakes your opponents make. Substituting players who makes a lot of mistakes with players who makes fewer mistakes can never ever be good - unless you suck at adjusting.

[/ QUOTE ]

Absolutely true, and I agree with your point.

But one possible small exception to note is that when the guy on your left cold-calls you a little too much, it is possible that his mistake takes from both of your equities and passes them to the blinds.

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ya good point.

Re: How many 38+ vpip do you want at your table?
 

theres quite a few situations where opponents combined mistakes hurt your expectation. combined outs, pooling effect, etc.

Re: How many 38+ vpip do you want at your table?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Your long term winrate at a table is determined by the sum of mistakes your opponents make. Substituting players who makes a lot of mistakes with players who makes fewer mistakes can never ever be good - unless you suck at adjusting.



[/ QUOTE ]

This is too simplistic, and it overlooks the value of position and "schooling".

Say you're in a 6-max game with a horrible loose passive player on your immediate right.

The LP open limps (as he often does) and you raise with a wider-than-usual range. Would you rather have the players behind you fold, cold-call, or 3-bet with hands like JTo, Q9s, 44, A7o, K9s, 87s, KTo. If the players behind are inclined to get involved, and you adjust by tightening up your isolation standards, you will win less from the huge fish than you could have if the players behind you were tighter. If you keep your isolation standards the same, you will be stuck playing lots of very marginal hands in ~4 way raised pots out of position.

When players behind you get involved, they inflate the pot (making loose post-flop play by the player(s) on your right more correct) and take equity away from you. They also negate your positional advantage.

Players that are really bad will obviously be putting money in your pocket no matter where they sit, but players behind you that are too loose, but only kind of bad, will definately detract from how much you can make off a big fish sitting on your right, without contributing enough to your earn to make up for it.

Here's another way to look at it: Say having the button postflop in worth X BB/100. If a player cold-calls or 3-bets 50% of your raises, he will cost you money unless he figures to lose at least 1.5X BB/100 to you.

EDIT:

I just noticed you were talking about opponents making mistakes rather than just being too loose. In that case I agree with you. Assumiung something around 30/20 is optimal for a particular game, I want the too loose guys on my right and the too tight guys on my left. When I said I want tighter players on my left, I don't mean standard 30/20 tough-playing TAGs. I mean weak/predictable 23/17 "TAGs".

Re: How many 38+ vpip do you want at your table?
 

this is such a dumb speculative argument. Just go through a large db and filter for games with 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 high vpip fish. Compare winrates. Disjunction already did that for us in another thread in this same forum ~ 1 month ago.