400NLHUCASH trip aces getting raised on the river
 

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $4 BB (2 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Hero ($4638.05)
Button ($789.50)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">Button raises to $12</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $40</font>, Button calls $28.

Flop: ($80) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $60</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to $120</font>, Hero calls $60.

Turn: ($320) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, Button checks.

River: ($320) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $216</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to $629.5</font>, Hero????????


We have some history with villain. He is unpredictable player, capable of making crazy moves, but generally he is quite solid.

Is this an easy laydown? I put his range on 77-99, A7+, JT and I was 4 to 1 against this range. Mix in some bluffs and maybe he wouldn't do it with AT or AJ so it becomes a fold. I posted this hand because I think I discovered a leak in my game, that I tend to call way too much in spots like this one.

I posted this hand to figure out if I can expand his range, but I don't think so. I want to figure out if this is a tough or an easy laydown.

Re: 400NLHUCASH trip aces getting raised on the river
 

I think your range on him is fine. I call this and hate it because he will probably flip over JT, but in the long run he will flip over 77-KK and A7+ alot more often.

Re: 400NLHUCASH trip aces getting raised on the river
 

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I think your range on him is fine. I call this and hate it because he will probably flip over JT, but in the long run he will flip over 77-KK and A7+ alot more often.

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Just to remind you - look at the hand again. Some of the hands you mentioned I can't beat.

Re: 400NLHUCASH trip aces getting raised on the river
 

I think his range is pretty polarized and not much of it involves trips.

He either has a straight here, a total bluff, or somehow spiked his set/boat (doubtful). I'd give it a distribution of 50%, 25%, 10%, and 15% for ??!??!?

Re: 400NLHUCASH trip aces getting raised on the river
 

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I think his range is pretty polarized and not much of it involves trips.

He either has a straight here, a total bluff, or somehow spiked his set/boat (doubtful). I'd give it a distribution of 50%, 25%, 10%, and 15% for ??!??!?

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I probably expanded his range too much, but I didn't involve bluffs, so it probably is like 4 to 1, probably even less.

Re: 400NLHUCASH trip aces getting raised on the river
 

How lightly does he call 3bets?
Does he valubet thin? (ie. would he play AJ the same)
What does a minraise mean?
Does he view you as a station or nit?

I mean, would he call pf with A8/A9/A7? His check on the turn is very suspicious, and I would slightly discount the lower full houses (99,77). He may have fistpumped on the turn if he had A7 and then checked without thinking it through. A8 and other aces may play the same.

My first instinct is to fold. People just dont bluffraise the river like this that often imo.

Re: 400NLHUCASH trip aces getting raised on the river
 

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How lightly does he call 3bets?
Does he valubet thin? (ie. would he play AJ the same)
What does a minraise mean?
Does he view you as a station or nit?

I mean, would he call pf with A8/A9/A7? His check on the turn is very suspicious, and I would slightly discount the lower full houses (99,77). He may have fistpumped on the turn if he had A7 and then checked without thinking it through. A8 and other aces may play the same.

My first instinct is to fold. People just dont bluffraise the river like this that often imo.

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1. He calls them pretty lightly.
2. Sometimes.
3. It's not a minraise. It is all his money.
4. He views me as a station probably.

Re: 400NLHUCASH trip aces getting raised on the river
 

coach me
[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
AbreuTime meant the flop miniraise

i think fold is fine, but i see AK here sometimes

Re: 400NLHUCASH trip aces getting raised on the river
 

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coach me
[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
AbreuTime meant the flop miniraise

i think fold is fine, but i see AK here sometimes

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Sorry. I only thought about river in this hand which is probably wrong. He might minraise bluff on the flop.

Re: 400NLHUCASH trip aces getting raised on the river
 

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i think fold is fine, but i see AK here sometimes

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For the vast majority of players at this level, AK won't be smoothcalling pf. The only way to win this hand with a call is if your opponent has 9x that is trying to bluff you off your obvious KK or whatever he reads you for. And you obviously lose to the full houses. The check on the turn is pretty strange, and is hard to interpret in a vacuum. If he was going to continue a bluff, you would think he would do it on the turn...

Re: 400NLHUCASH trip aces getting raised on the river
 

fold

your hand is face up and he doesn't expect you to lay it down

Re: 400NLHUCASH trip aces getting raised on the river
 

1) You can discount some of the hands in your range because of how you got the to the river, mainly hands you lose to

2) He is almost never bluffing, so the question becomes how often is he value shoving worse. Not so often IMO, I would fold but not like

Re: 400NLHUCASH trip aces getting raised on the river
 

why did you bet river?

Re: 400NLHUCASH trip aces getting raised on the river
 

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why did you bet river?

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I expect him to call with a lone 9 or any other pair and weaker aces, because he knows I am capable of making crazy bluffs. It is a value bet and I would do it against unknown also. I understand arguments for checking though.

Re: 400NLHUCASH trip aces getting raised on the river
 

This is a close situation. I'd probably call (getting 1:3). Against a range I put him to: (99-77, AJ, A9s-A7s, JTs) I get equity of 21:78. You told the opponent could bluff sometimes and maybe even valuebet thin with AT (unlikely). If those consist more than 4% of time then calling is correct.

Re: 400NLHUCASH trip aces getting raised on the river
 

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why did you bet river?

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I expect him to call with a lone 9 or any other pair and weaker aces, because he knows I am capable of making crazy bluffs. It is a value bet and I would do it against unknown also. I understand arguments for checking though.

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When you bet this river your hand can beat all those hands. Does he think you can make a valuebet with KK here? I think its more likely he has nothing and might bluff. FWIW I'd snap call this all-in if I was betting since I think a bet is more likely to induce some stupid bluff than a weak call from this type of player.

Re: 400NLHUCASH trip aces getting raised on the river
 

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why did you bet river?

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I expect him to call with a lone 9 or any other pair and weaker aces, because he knows I am capable of making crazy bluffs. It is a value bet and I would do it against unknown also. I understand arguments for checking though.

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When you bet this river your hand can beat all those hands. Does he think you can make a valuebet with KK here? I think its more likely he has nothing and might bluff. FWIW I'd snap call this all-in if I was betting since I think a bet is more likely to induce some stupid bluff than a weak call from this type of player.

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I agree that the liklihood of a stupid bluff here is more likely than people are giving credit for. The hero's hand is extremely underrepresented. The villain's hand looks to me like either JT, 88, A8 (maybe), or complete air. It also seems possible that the villain planned on firing at the turn but picked up a club draw and chose to take the free card.

Your read on the villain seems to support possibility that he could make a move here with air.

If you don't intend to call in this situation then you should be betting or raising earlier in the hand. There isn't any point in underrepresenting a hand like this if you plan on dropping when the villain fires back at you.

Edit: I also find that 77, 99, A7, A9 are all very unlikely in this scenario. His min raise on the flop shows quite a bit of strength while hardly raising the value of the pot. In my experience this line is either a set up for trying to bet you out on a later street or to start building the pot early.

It looks strongly to me like he either:

A) Picked up a draw on the turn and didn't want to risk getting shoved on if he fired a second barrel (I wouldn't dismiss 86c or 65c against a tricky villain, although 86c probably shoves the turn).
B) Hit the river big time.
C) Decided at the river that your hand looked weak enough to steal the pot from.

Re: 400NLHUCASH trip aces getting raised on the river
 

hero calls and loses....

Re: 400NLHUCASH trip aces getting raised on the river
 

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hero calls and loses....

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Ty for being an idiot.

Re: 400NLHUCASH trip aces getting raised on the river
 

Nice post, xSCWx. You took time for this, ty. But you came up with some pretty strange holdings, like 86s? You think he minraised bluff on the turn? B and C option seems more likely than A, I think.

Re: 400NLHUCASH trip aces getting raised on the river
 

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Nice post, xSCWx. You took time for this, ty. But you came up with some pretty strange holdings, like 86s? You think he minraised bluff on the turn? B and C option seems more likely than A, I think.

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I agree with you that B and C are a lot more likely than A. This may just be a result of me betting the vast majority of paired flops, but I've encountered quite a few players who will min raise on the flop as a "test" bet to see how you react, then will continue through with a bluff if you don't raise them. It seems really unusual to me that he took the strong looking min-raise line then decided to take the polar opposite move of checking behind on the turn.

What do you mean minraised bluff on the turn?

Re: 400NLHUCASH trip aces getting raised on the river
 

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Nice post, xSCWx. You took time for this, ty. But you came up with some pretty strange holdings, like 86s? You think he minraised bluff on the turn? B and C option seems more likely than A, I think.

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I agree with you that B and C are a lot more likely than A. This may just be a result of me betting the vast majority of paired flops, but I've encountered quite a few players who will min raise on the flop as a "test" bet to see how you react, then will continue through with a bluff if you don't raise them. It seems really unusual to me that he took the strong looking min-raise line then decided to take the polar opposite move of checking behind on the turn.

What do you mean minraised bluff on the turn?

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I meant minraised bluff on flop. Just used the wrong word. Is it possible that he has A8 here and did it for pot control? Minraise flop check turn IP controls the pot very well. Like A8 or A7, and he sucked out so pot control wasn't needed any more? Realize he is almost 200BB deep so this might be his play. I sensed a tendency of him being very tight and careful when he is up so this might be his line. It is confusing situation, because he seems to be overaggressive sometimes when he only has a buy in on one table, and very tight when he has more than that. So I don't know if he is capable of bluffing here.

Re: 400NLHUCASH trip aces getting raised on the river
 

Nice stack BTW

Re: 400NLHUCASH trip aces getting raised on the river
 

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Nice stack BTW

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Ty.

Re: 400NLHUCASH trip aces getting raised on the river
 

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Nice post, xSCWx. You took time for this, ty. But you came up with some pretty strange holdings, like 86s? You think he minraised bluff on the turn? B and C option seems more likely than A, I think.

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I agree with you that B and C are a lot more likely than A. This may just be a result of me betting the vast majority of paired flops, but I've encountered quite a few players who will min raise on the flop as a "test" bet to see how you react, then will continue through with a bluff if you don't raise them. It seems really unusual to me that he took the strong looking min-raise line then decided to take the polar opposite move of checking behind on the turn.

What do you mean minraised bluff on the turn?

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I meant minraised bluff on flop. Just used the wrong word. Is it possible that he has A8 here and did it for pot control? Minraise flop check turn IP controls the pot very well. Like A8 or A7, and he sucked out so pot control wasn't needed any more? Realize he is almost 200BB deep so this might be his play. I sensed a tendency of him being very tight and careful when he is up so this might be his line. It is confusing situation, because he seems to be overaggressive sometimes when he only has a buy in on one table, and very tight when he has more than that. So I don't know if he is capable of bluffing here.

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I think A8 is his most likely "real" hand to show up with here. The min raise is kind of weird for 88, I think a7 and 77 both almost always bet the turn. I wouldn't dismiss the possibility that he backdoored you either though.

Please tell me you called so we can see the results for this. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: 400NLHUCASH trip aces getting raised on the river
 

I called. He showed A8.

Re: 400NLHUCASH trip aces getting raised on the river
 

Thats pretty impressive scw

Re: 400NLHUCASH trip aces getting raised on the river
 

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Thats pretty impressive scw

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[img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Re: 400NLHUCASH trip aces getting raised on the river
 

Have you ever thought about re-raising this flop?

Re: 400NLHUCASH trip aces getting raised on the river
 

I keep reading these posts putting opponent on a straight, and I keep getting superconfused. Judging from his river action, that's a likely holding, but judging from the flop action, that's crazy.

Also, to the person who said, why bet river, I say, huh?

I think the play up until we get raised on the river is good. Vs. a very aggro guy who calls a lot of pf 3-bets I'd suck it up and call. Not sure exactly how often we're in bad shape here, but I assume an aggro player would play worse aces in a similar fashion.

However, if he mucks a lot of hands to your preflop reraises then he's probably going to be mucking most of those worse aces, so you're looking for someone who sticks around in pots.