better line?
 

villain = phyreburn. 26/20, 24wtsd, 46wwsf, 4.9/3.5/2.4 AF over 3.3k hands. i was probably shoving a lot of other rivers or c/fing, still undecided.


Full Tilt Poker, $3/$6 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LegoPoker Hand History Converter

Hero (BB): $1,575.75
UTG: $847.95
MP: $600
CO: $612.20
BTN: $582
SB: $1,438

Pre-Flop: A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (BB)
<font color="red">UTG raises to $21</font>, MP calls $21, CO calls $21, 2 folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $108</font>, UTG calls $87, MP calls $87, CO calls $87

Flop: ($435) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $120</font>, UTG calls $120, 2 folds

Turn: ($675) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $200</font>, UTG calls $200

River: ($1,075) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Hero checks, <font color="red">UTG bets $419.95 and is All-In</font>, Hero folds

Re: better line?
 

So you are putting villain on AA/88/AQ????

Re: better line?
 

ok so there are a sick amount of people in the hand, so you lead out weak on the flop. No good IMO. Lead out for real with the intention of getting it in or just check and evaluate.

Re: better line?
 

i think i just c/f turn. he would check down weaker aces no?

Re: better line?
 

isn't villain much more likely to have a set than AQ? i guess it depends a little bit on how fishy he is and how fishy the players are left to act behind him to determine his PF range.

your hand is kind of face up as AK or AA too.

Re: better line?
 

[ QUOTE ]
So you are putting villain on AA/88/AQ????

[/ QUOTE ]

you putting him on valueshoving AT or something? floating flop?

Re: better line?
 

you people did notice jfish bet 1/4 of the pot on the flop right

just curious

Re: better line?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So you are putting villain on AA/88/AQ????

[/ QUOTE ]

you putting him on valueshoving AT or something? floating flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

my question is much much more pertinent than yours

Re: better line?
 

yes, but i doubt he would do it w/ nothing into 3 players but maybe he would. regardless i think his hand is defined on the turn.

Re: better line?
 

[ QUOTE ]
i think i just c/f turn. he would check down weaker aces no?

[/ QUOTE ]

seems reasonable. i didnt want to c/f so i thought underbetting was the best other option.

Re: better line?
 

wow completely missed that this was 4 handed to the flop.
yea... I dunno how to play this hand

edit: I dont mind JFish's line that much, but I suppose checking the flop cant be terrible. Or you could half pot the flop and then give up

Re: better line?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i think i just c/f turn. he would check down weaker aces no?

[/ QUOTE ]

seems reasonable. i didnt want to c/f so i thought underbetting was the best other option.

[/ QUOTE ]

seems fine depending on what kind of PF range you give him considering 2 player(and their tendencies) left to act behind him.

i just assume most 26/20s are probably smart enough to dump AQ tho PF in this particular spot w/o some history, u squeezing alot, etc...

so w/o more info...1 more for c/f turn but bet a little bigger on the flop.

Re: better line?
 

I dislike how this was played. I think that the turn bet commits us, so I would shove it or shove that river and be pretty happy about the hand. If the multiple callers scares you, then it is better to check the flop and see how the hand develops.

Re: better line?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i think i just c/f turn. he would check down weaker aces no?

[/ QUOTE ]

seems reasonable. i didnt want to c/f so i thought underbetting was the best other option.

[/ QUOTE ]

why c/f? checking and then anything but folding &gt; c/f, and its possibly better than what you did.

i like 250 on the flop and take it from there if you are going to bet.

Re: better line?
 

umm wtf man, call to his A9 valuebet or double float bluff.

Re: better line?
 

so is the double float bluff is the new three bet(as in very common) at 3/6 nlhe right????

Re: better line?
 

sry i don't speak spanish

Re: better line?
 

train

Re: better line?
 

wreck

Re: better line?
 

I've been trying to find a good way to yell at you about the little flop bet. But, actually, I don't really like checking or betting large either. Its not like people are stacking off much worse if you bet large in this spot, and checking seems like a bad mistake when the pot is this big already. And I don't think you buy yourself much more action by checking, either, unless they catch up with a 2-outer or something. There are 3 villains out there, after all. So, I guess weak-leading is fine, but I wouldn't generally do it with the intention of ever folding. I'd do it because thats your best chance to get value from a fool with a weaker ace or some stubborn KK/QQ.

You know what, I like it as played. yup. he's never bluffing river with the worse hand that get there, but the real thing is that there really arent too many worse hands that got there anyhow, especially now that the Qball showed up. Only thing to worry about is him bluffing us off a chop (whether he realizes it or not). I think that is a likely outcome here, though it doesn't matter much. We've only got about 15% equity here against a range of AA, AK, AQ, 88, 22. Tight, yes, but what else does he show up with? Its not like he floated a mid pair and turned a combo draw or something.

Re: better line?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I've been trying to find a good way to yell at you about the little flop bet. But, actually, I don't really like checking or betting large either. Its not like people are stacking off much worse if you bet large in this spot, and checking seems like a bad mistake when the pot is this big already. And I don't think you buy yourself much more action by checking, either, unless they catch up with a 2-outer or something. There are 3 villains out there, after all. So, I guess weak-leading is fine, but I wouldn't generally do it with the intention of ever folding. I'd do it because thats your best chance to get value from a fool with a weaker ace or some stubborn KK/QQ.

You know what, I like it as played. yup. he's never bluffing river with the worse hand that get there, but the real thing is that there really arent too many worse hands that got there anyhow, especially now that the Qball showed up. Only thing to worry about is him bluffing us off a chop (whether he realizes it or not). I think that is a likely outcome here, though it doesn't matter much. We've only got about 15% equity here against a range of AA, AK, AQ, 88, 22. Tight, yes, but what else does he show up with? Its not like he floated a mid pair and turned a combo draw or something.

[/ QUOTE ]

pretty much sums up my thoughts as well. good post.

Re: better line?
 

vn post sensei, 2nd para is bang on. first para i dunno, i'm still not overjoyed with what happened on the flop and i don't think checking is as bad as you make out.

Re: better line?
 

I think checking flop is definitely better than betting big, fwiw.

Re: better line?
 

i dont like that flop betting high. this bet can easy be called with a week ace or even a random pair or anything as preparation of a bluff on later streets. betting is a must here on the flop. checking the flop is terrible. 2/3 flop bet seems perfect for me. not to high and not to low.
as played with your bet you have no idea where you stand...

Re: better line?
 

Given the line you took I don`t think you can get away from this hand on the river. Who knows what villain puts you on...

Re: better line?
 

lol so sick.i really doubt its AQ or AJ since i believe he would really 4 bet u with those hands than call. Could be a sick float but he doesnt have much on the river to really bluff so i doubt it. yea i really think it is 88 or 33 quite often here.I like a check on this flop because i dont think he is calling a bet with TT and below anyway on this board unless he wants to turn his TT into a bluff and by checking i think u might be able to get value from JJ+ often enough.