Ugly A7 shorthanded, plz evaluate/berate
 

I'm mainly concerned about PF and Turn decisions here. To what extent (if any) is this spew?

Villains are LP mouthbreathers, none are playing any kind of definable line other than "cards is fun, any two can win!"

Everest Poker
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $0.05./$0.1
5 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (5 players) TheLamprey is UTG with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
TheLamprey calls, CO calls, Button calls, SB calls, BB checks.

Flop: J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5SB, 5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="#cc0000">TheLamprey bets</font>, CO calls, Button folds, SB calls, BB folds.

Turn: T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4BB, 3 players)
SB checks, <font color="#cc0000">TheLamprey bets</font>, CO calls, SB calls.

River: 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (7BB, 3 players)
SB checks, TheLamprey checks, <font color="#cc0000">CO bets</font>, SB folds, TheLamprey folds.
Uncalled bets: 1BB returned to CO.

Results:
Final pot: 7BB

Re: Ugly A7 shorthanded, plz evaluate/berate
 

PF is terrible.

Turn is awful

Re: Ugly A7 shorthanded, plz evaluate/berate
 

river is perfect.

Re: Ugly A7 shorthanded, plz evaluate/berate
 

Yes, expert fold on the river.

Re: Ugly A7 shorthanded, plz evaluate/berate
 

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river is perfect.

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no way we only have to be good 1:7 times to win

bad river fold

Re: Ugly A7 shorthanded, plz evaluate/berate
 

ok ok you got me. I was just making fun of the troll and it backfired. Who's the troll now?
&lt;------ [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] sorry...

Re: Ugly A7 shorthanded, plz evaluate/berate
 

playing ace rag in EP is pretty bad.

Rob, tell us what were YOUR thought processes on the turn? what are you hoping to achieve by betting? doing so will help you get better at poker as well as help show you aint no troll or a gimmick account that just so happens to be up to date with the lingo we use round these ere parts.

also it seems like you dont treat your opponents with much respect at all which probably is a contributor to your spewy play here...tis be a slippery slope

Re: Ugly A7 shorthanded, plz evaluate/berate
 

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playing ace rag like this in EP is pretty bad.

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Ozi, it's 5-handed. A7o is certainly in the playing range, but Hero shouldn't be limping anything.

As to the river, overcalling would be bad, but since the middle player folded, yeah, give it a call.

Re: Ugly A7 shorthanded, plz evaluate/berate
 

On the turn, most spades obviously makes the nuts. I also thought any A or 7 or K would be good enough here, given my opponents (very loose and passive). So I have FD + gutshot + 5 more outs (A and 7). Even if we discount that for the times we split with a straight, lose with trip A's to a straight, and are drawing thin against a made flush (which is not very often), I think it's a pretty decent value bet. Let's not forget that once in a blue moon we will show down sevens unimproved and win the pot vs. 2 busted draws.
When it comes to respecting my opponents, I have found that in general at nano-limits, it's better not to try to figure out what my opponents are thinking or doing. If I just play my hand and the board, I tend to profit more than when I try to put non-thinking opponents on a hand and end up seeing Monsters Under The Bed.

Re: Ugly A7 shorthanded, plz evaluate/berate
 

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playing ace rag like this in EP is pretty bad.

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Ozi, it's 5-handed. A7o is certainly in the playing range.

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I don't think it is in this game. I'd probably want A9o minimum.

Re: Ugly A7 shorthanded, plz evaluate/berate
 

FWIW I fail at reading...thought it was like fullring. go me. as boz said...if ur playing it...raise it.

Re: Ugly A7 shorthanded, plz evaluate/berate
 

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playing ace rag like this in EP is pretty bad.

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Ozi, it's 5-handed. A7o is certainly in the playing range.

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I don't think it is in this game. I'd probably want A9o minimum.

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5 handed here with a ton of people that im assuming will Call two cold here is an easy fold for me. A9 sounds about right, KQo also.

Re: Ugly A7 shorthanded, plz evaluate/berate
 

* grunch *

Preflop:
I'm not playing off-suit small aces in early position, especially limping. This kind of hand doesn't play well multiway so limping is not good. A raise often gets a call from a hand dominating us (in full ring). If you are going to play this raise it - it works often enough in 5max.

Flop:
Bottom pair and the nut-FD. You probably have a clear equity edge so betting out is good to build a bigger pot while having the best of it. Going for a c/r is risky as you can't be sure anyone will bet as nobody raised preflop and board can look scary to a lot of hands. You should probably raise if given chance and two or more villains are still in the pot with you.

Turn:
Your equity probably just collapsed. Your opponents are supposedly loose calling stations that won't fold. You probably aren't ahead anymore, in equity or currently. Check and try to get a free card for your draw, passive villains might give it.

River:
Hmm. I might bet hoping the villains were drawing and might even fold but that could be hoping too much. Loose passives will often call even with a T here. Folding to a raise from passive villains is easy though.

b/f or c/f, maybe c/f though - I'm not assured we'd get many folds from any hands better than us, not even from Ts.

EDIT: After reading other responses I obviously missed the gutshot on the turn. However, it probably doesn't change our equity much as our outs can give others a split or better hand. Still checking the turn.

River, hmm. Maybe c/f is bad here. Yet, as the villains are assumedly passive they aren't likely to bet the river as a bluff or 66 or smaller pp. So I don't think there's value in checking as to induce bluffs. It's probably pretty tight between c/c or b/f. Betting might get some folds from Ts. On the other, Ts might not bet if we check. I dunno.

Re: Ugly A7 shorthanded, plz evaluate/berate
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
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playing ace rag like this in EP is pretty bad.

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Ozi, it's 5-handed. A7o is certainly in the playing range.

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I don't think it is in this game. I'd probably want A9o minimum.

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[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

I almost jumped all over this, and then realized that you MUST be being sarcastic as the preflop difference between A9o and A7o is insignificant.

Re: Ugly A7 shorthanded, plz evaluate/berate
 

I dont mind popping A7o in the HJ. But with a high rake and with loose players behind you I think its a muck.

Playing it wont be a huge mistake tho. With lower rake or with tight players behind you its an easy raise for me.



@ OP

When shorthanded you shouldnt open limp. EVER!

Re: Ugly A7 shorthanded, plz evaluate/berate
 

Hi all,

A little background... I've been lurking here for a couple of months, trying to read as much as possible to get my feet wet. I've played poker sporadically over the last couple of years (maybe 2-3K hands total), and I've recently decided I want to get serious about poker, and make a concerted effort to really improve my game. I look forward to posting here, and highly appreciate all the commentary/discussion that goes on.

Anyhoo... with this hand, I'm a little bit confused as to why the turn bet was a bad play. Assuming everyone calls, he's getting 3:1 odds. I think Rob is counting 18 outs or so, and if you discount a few of those (Aces might give somebody the straight), it's still highly likely you'll end up around 12 or 13 outs, which I believe is better than 3:1.

Is it a bed bet because of the possibility of a split pot if he hits the straight?

If this is a mistake, I think it's a mistake I probably make fairly often, so any insight would be much appreciated.

Thanks again, and looking forward to getting involved in the forum.

Re: Ugly A7 shorthanded, plz evaluate/berate
 

Hi, Vinnie!

If this:

[ QUOTE ]
I've recently decided I want to get serious about poker, and make a concerted effort to really improve my game.

[/ QUOTE ]

is true, step one can be to remove the words "I think", "highly likely" and "I believe" from this:

[ QUOTE ]
I think Rob is counting 18 outs or so, and if you discount a few of those (Aces might give somebody the straight), it's still highly likely you'll end up around 12 or 13 outs, which I believe is better than 3:1.

[/ QUOTE ]

These are calculations you have to know how to do, and have confidence in them. Not trying to berate you, particularly, but if you're equivocal around here you'll be eaten alive.

As to your question, the problem with the bet is one of ranges. Hero just got called in two places on a 3-flush flop, and because of the way the board looks there really aren't too many WORSE hands that will call a bet (e.g. if the board were 7s5s2s you could be getting called by a hand like Ks5x), and there are a lot of better hands (5s4s) that are a) taking away your outs, b) not going to let you off the hook by raising, and c) not going to fold for you. Plus there's a third hand in the mix that probably has at least a better pair but is afraid of the flush.

So, on the one hand you can't count on having full equity on your draw, and on the other hand you are almost certainly drawing, and on somebody else's third hand you really don't want to pay more than one bet to see the river. Ergo, check and see.

Re: Ugly A7 shorthanded, plz evaluate/berate
 

Interesting... thanks bozlax. I definitely have to learn how to read these situations better.

Appreciate the advice as well. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]