Card exposed question
 

Before the flop, a card is exposed to you just before it goes in the muck. You believe you are the only person to have seen it, and you believe noone else knows you've seen it. You're still in the hand with no current intention of folding.

My question is: do you have an obligation to declare the card you've seen to the rest of the table, or is this information just a bit of good fortune for you?

Re: Card exposed question
 

When this happens to me, I don't feel obligated to say anything. The way I see it, the advantage you gain from seeing one card isn't really much. It would have to be a specific board to that card to mean anything, and even then players can still have case cards.

It slows the game down a bit as well, not to mention those times when you're tired as hell, you're not gonna give a sh*t. Shrug this off.

Re: Card exposed question
 

Good question, to further it:

If you win the hand, and the house initially saw you see the card, can they deny winnings or would they announce that you saw it before flop?

Re: Card exposed question
 

If I am sure of the card, I will often announce "those cards flashed". Then it is up to the dealer.

Just the way I am. I don't 'require' others to follow.

If some player is constantly flashing his muck to the other half of the table, I do say something to the dealer (I don't want to be at a disadvantage).

Re: Card exposed question
 

Anyway it happened to me - I saw a card, didn't say anything and it caused me to put a very bad beat on someone.

Re: Card exposed question
 

Let me answer this question by asking another one or two (I hate when people do that).

Let's say you dropped a chip on the floor. As you bent over the pick it up, a mucked card was exposed (and then buried) and everybody at the table saw it but you. Do you feel an obligation that you should be told about that card or is okay for everyone to carry on with the hand (for arguement's sake say the dealer was moving his chair for you and didn't see the card get exposed)?

Okay so that seems a little contrived. How about this one. Seat 10, 9 and 8 call. Seat 4 calls. Seat 3 tosses his two hole cards in the muck and Seats 8, 9 and 10 all see them but Seat 4 can't see them. Are seats 8, 9 and 10 obligated to say anything here?

From my own point of view, I want my opponents to be honest, fair and hard-nosed. I mention when I gain an unfair advantage and I expect my opponents to as well.

Re: Card exposed question
 

I feel an obligation to say that I saw the card. Knowing somebody's card can give you an unfair advantage over that person and everyone else at the table.

I would hope that everyone else would do the same thing.

The only exception would be if I saw the card and was fairly certain nobody else saw it, and I knew I was going to fold anyway. Then in the spirit of keeping the game moving I wouldn't say anything.

Re: Card exposed question
 

If I'll be playing in the hand: most likely yes.
If not, as Mr Rick said: no, since it doesn't matter at all to the other players.

Also, I'ld only say it when I'm 100% sure I saw it correctly. If you saw 8s 90% sure, but 10% could be 9s, I wouldn't want to hold things up by the mucker who will/won't correct you if you are wrong.

In the end, I don't think it matters that much actually.

Re: Card exposed question
 

[ QUOTE ]
I feel an obligation to say that I saw the card. Knowing somebody's card can give you an unfair advantage over that person and everyone else at the table.

I would hope that everyone else would do the same thing.

The only exception would be if I saw the card and was fairly certain nobody else saw it, and I knew I was going to fold anyway. Then in the spirit of keeping the game moving I wouldn't say anything.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Card exposed question
 

Having given this some thought I now think its politically correct and probably best to announce the card, but at the same time I think few people actually DO it. How often do we hear "I saw XX" compared to how often we see cards exposed to others? Much more often the latter, I think. I also think people generally don't want to embarass their buddies so they stay quiet a lot of the time and/or don't want to give away an advantage that they feel noone is giving back to them.

Re: Card exposed question
 

[ QUOTE ]
...and/or don't want to give away an advantage that they feel noone is giving back to them.

[/ QUOTE ]
Screw thy neighbor as he would screw unto you.

I am not directing this to you but I feel if we all speak up and say we want integrity in our games and we act that way, then perhaps some day every single player will speak if he gains an unfair advantage and we can all play an honest game.

As a matter of fact, the next guy that cracks my AA I am going to kiss him full on the lips.

Re: Card exposed question
 

I tend to be pragmatic about such things. If I'm the only one that saw it, and it cannot impact the hand (like if I'm about to fold my cards, too, or if I see a red 5 after AAK all black flops and I hold KK, or all I saw was black spots on the card and the flop is mostly red paint), I will say nothing in the interests of expediency. I'm not trying to cheat, and while the card didn't help or hurt me at all, it's not impossible someone else might get useful info from it which puts me at a disadvantage (like if a 5 is flashed and someone else holds 55 and is thinking of trying for his 2-outer, he may rethink that if he knows it's a 1-outter). If the card is at all important, sure, speak up.

Re: Card exposed question
 

If a card flashes, I'll say so. I like doing this when it's lying face-up on the table. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] If I see a card and the dealer mucks it without showing it, I'll announce it. That's just what I do.