10\\20 against 20 Buck Spin
 

http://www.pokerhand.org/?1621855


Villian as very agggro\spewy preflop and postflop.

I can't see folding preflop or posflop against him, and a lot of scare cards on the turn, so i probably can't wait.

Re: 10\\20 against 20 Buck Spin
 

...why am I not playing on Stars?

Re: 10\\20 against 20 Buck Spin
 

hope u hit yer 4 outs

Re: 10\\20 against 20 Buck Spin
 

raising the flop is really gross. i'd probably call and see what happens on the turn

Re: 10\\20 against 20 Buck Spin
 

you shouldn't be playing 10/20

raising flop sucks because you'll never ever get money in as any significant favour, rather you will be close to 50/50 or drawing thin against a better hand.

Re: 10\\20 against 20 Buck Spin
 

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raising the flop is really gross. i'd probably call and see what happens on the turn

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he bets any spade or J+ about 80%..

Definetly raising this flop not a standart play, and looks donkish, but..did you play against him? He reraise pre about top 20-30% hands in this sitautions and could jam flop w\ 5x6s or any top-pair.

Re: 10\\20 against 20 Buck Spin
 

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you shouldn't be playing 10/20

raising flop sucks because you'll never ever get money in as any significant favour, rather you will be close to 50/50 or drawing thin against a better hand.

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QFT, 20 Buck is [censored] spewy as hell but he isn't getting it in with anything you have crushed here

Re: 10\\20 against 20 Buck Spin
 

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you shouldn't be playing 10/20

raising flop sucks because you'll never ever get money in as any significant favour, rather you will be close to 50/50 or drawing thin against a better hand.

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QFT, 20 Buck is [censored] spewy as hell but he isn't getting it in with anything you have crushed here

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so? I still think that raise-callAI is +$ against him, but call flop\call non spade turn looks better...

Re: 10\\20 against 20 Buck Spin
 

ugh i hate this, almost everytime at best you're like 50/50 and at worst you're stone dead. if he just went maniacal one hand and you held up, congrats, i wouldn't recommend this line ever though

Re: 10\\20 against 20 Buck Spin
 

This is a [censored] sick spot to be in. I know people are advocating to call but this SOB will fire any turn so to avoid getting outplayed I'd just shove it in now. I'll tell ya one thing. Buckspin is a spewtard on a heater. I know he has a lot of hands now at the higher limits and is winning a lot but his day will come and he will pay dearly. He is a wannabe CTS.

I really don't think you should call this flop verus buckspin. I'd rather see you fold then call. How sick is it going to be when the turn comes any kqj or spade and he fires turn? Cause he will. Plus you may get it in pretty good here anyway. That guy could call you with two red nines 56 with a spade or all kinds of junk. I don't think the posters really know this particular opponent that well or maybe haven't seen what he's capable of. Shove it baby!!!

Re: 10\\20 against 20 Buck Spin
 

value shove flop vs 20buck

edit: all day.

edit2: and twice on sunday.

Re: 10\\20 against 20 Buck Spin
 

agree w/ ansky and LA whole-heartedly

Re: 10\\20 against 20 Buck Spin
 

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This is a [censored] sick spot to be in. I know people are advocating to call but this SOB will fire any turn so to avoid getting outplayed I'd just shove it in now. I'll tell ya one thing. Buckspin is a spewtard on a heater. I know he has a lot of hands now at the higher limits and is winning a lot but his day will come and he will pay dearly. He is a wannabe CTS.

I really don't think you should call this flop verus buckspin. I'd rather see you fold then call. How sick is it going to be when the turn comes any kqj or spade and he fires turn? Cause he will. Plus you may get it in pretty good here anyway. That guy could call you with two red nines 56 with a spade or all kinds of junk. I don't think the posters really know this particular opponent that well or maybe haven't seen what he's capable of. Shove it baby!!!

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spot on, i only played 1 session with him, but it was a long one and man does he get it in super bad a ton

Re: 10\\20 against 20 Buck Spin
 

Eh, I can see how people actually want to valueraise this against said player if he gets it in with anything and you actually might lose value on certain cards on turn, but saying that and at the same time saying "I'd rather fold than call flop" is ridiculous. If flop is to be true and he has a huge range AND fires turns RELENTLESSLY with said range, there is not a chance in a million years that folding is better than calling. Instead, you can can call and call allin on ANY non-spade turn quite simply.

So while I don't disagree with valueraise at all, I am vehemently against the idea of FOLDING or even being worried about turn like leatherass suggested, yes you will be bluffed on spades 1 time out of 10 or whatever, but if he's such a spewer you rate do very well a good part of the other 9.

Re: 10\\20 against 20 Buck Spin
 

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value shove flop vs 20buck

edit: all day.

edit2: and twice on sunday.

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yea fo real

Re: 10\\20 against 20 Buck Spin
 

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Eh, I can see how people actually want to valueraise this against said player if he gets it in with anything and you actually might lose value on certain cards on turn, but saying that and at the same time saying "I'd rather fold than call flop" is ridiculous. If flop is to be true and he has a huge range AND fires turns RELENTLESSLY with said range, there is not a chance in a million years that folding is better than calling. Instead, you can can call and call allin on ANY non-spade turn quite simply.

So while I don't disagree with valueraise at all, I am vehemently against the idea of FOLDING or even being worried about turn like leatherass suggested, yes you will be bluffed on spades 1 time out of 10 or whatever, but if he's such a spewer you rate do very well a good part of the other 9.

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but if i just call and a spade hits, what do i do then?? OH NOES

Re: 10\\20 against 20 Buck Spin
 

wait a minute, you're telling me he's going to bet EVERY turn? sounds awful, how can we beat this guy?! [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: 10\\20 against 20 Buck Spin
 

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Eh, I can see how people actually want to valueraise this against said player if he gets it in with anything and you actually might lose value on certain cards on turn, but saying that and at the same time saying "I'd rather fold than call flop" is ridiculous. If flop is to be true and he has a huge range AND fires turns RELENTLESSLY with said range, there is not a chance in a million years that folding is better than calling. Instead, you can can call and call allin on ANY non-spade turn quite simply.

So while I don't disagree with valueraise at all, I am vehemently against the idea of FOLDING or even being worried about turn like leatherass suggested, yes you will be bluffed on spades 1 time out of 10 or whatever, but if he's such a spewer you rate do very well a good part of the other 9.

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I think my final answer was clearly a shove. I didn't put much thought into my I'd rather fold statement so disregard that. Plus the turn gets ugly a little more than 1 time in 9. Not sure what kind of monkey math you have going there.

Re: 10\\20 against 20 Buck Spin
 

Ugh, AT plays so bad oop vs a reraise. I would save myself the headache and shove pre. As played shove flop instead of just reraising, it increases the chance you move him off a split, but just calling and forcing yourself to stop and think and make a good turn decision is best.

Re: 10\\20 against 20 Buck Spin
 

Leatherass, I'd prefer if you didn't call my math "monkey". How about this; 1 in 5 the turn comes a spade (we have apparently all agreed by now that if he fires every single turn relentlessly then calling anything except a spade is mandatory and profitable against his apparenly HUGE range). So, if 1 in 5 the turn gets ugly, I wrote 1 in 10 because you know, half of his hands (well almost, deduct the 3 spades on board) actually CONTAINS spades and thus you are not actually GETTING BLUFFED.

M'kay?

Re: 10\\20 against 20 Buck Spin
 

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Leatherass, I'd prefer if you didn't call my math "monkey". How about this; 1 in 5 the turn comes a spade (we have apparently all agreed by now that if he fires every single turn relentlessly then calling anything except a spade is mandatory and profitable against his apparenly HUGE range). So, if 1 in 5 the turn gets ugly, I wrote 1 in 10 because you know, half of his hands (well almost, deduct the 3 spades on board) actually CONTAINS spades and thus you are not actually GETTING BLUFFED.

M'kay?

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Sorry, I was just joking probably should've put a [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] there. Anyway, I was referring to the spades hitting 1 in 5 that will cause you to fold. Secondly I was also referring to the kqj that will make you sick to your stomach when he shoves turn. So that is a lot of cards on the turn that you will hate!!! Almost 35-40% of the deck actually will look ugly. I know you probably don't have a ton of experience with this guy but I have thousands of hands with him. Trust me you're going to want to shove on his ass and while you may not be fist pumping when he calls, you won't be tremendously nervous either.

Re: 10\\20 against 20 Buck Spin
 

lol we're not calling so we can fold every dangerous looking turn. i don't see how calling and calling a shove/shoving ANY non spade turn isn't the best play. he'd have to be getting it in a ton with no spades and less than AT for that to be better than shoving

Re: 10\\20 against 20 Buck Spin
 

Tought spot, may be better to wait for a non spade turn and then get your money in.

I wouldnt say your play is horrible in the hand, just slightly bad.

Re: 10\\20 against 20 Buck Spin
 

I like the call flop/push any nonspade turn line (K, Q, or J included)

Re: 10\\20 against 20 Buck Spin
 

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Leatherass, I'd prefer if you didn't call my math "monkey". How about this; 1 in 5 the turn comes a spade (we have apparently all agreed by now that if he fires every single turn relentlessly then calling anything except a spade is mandatory and profitable against his apparenly HUGE range). So, if 1 in 5 the turn gets ugly, I wrote 1 in 10 because you know, half of his hands (well almost, deduct the 3 spades on board) actually CONTAINS spades and thus you are not actually GETTING BLUFFED.

M'kay?

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Sorry, I was just joking probably should've put a [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] there. Anyway, I was referring to the spades hitting 1 in 5 that will cause you to fold. Secondly I was also referring to the kqj that will make you sick to your stomach when he shoves turn. So that is a lot of cards on the turn that you will hate!!! Almost 35-40% of the deck actually will look ugly. I know you probably don't have a ton of experience with this guy but I have thousands of hands with him. Trust me you're going to want to shove on his ass and while you may not be fist pumping when he calls, you won't be tremendously nervous either.

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You don't seem to understand that if he's pushing EVERY SINGLE K-J turn (non-spade) regardless of his holding, it doesn't matter how "ugly" it looks, calling every time will be printing money. The fact that he always pushes these turns is a GOOD thing for you.

Re: 10\\20 against 20 Buck Spin
 

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Leatherass, I'd prefer if you didn't call my math "monkey". How about this; 1 in 5 the turn comes a spade (we have apparently all agreed by now that if he fires every single turn relentlessly then calling anything except a spade is mandatory and profitable against his apparenly HUGE range). So, if 1 in 5 the turn gets ugly, I wrote 1 in 10 because you know, half of his hands (well almost, deduct the 3 spades on board) actually CONTAINS spades and thus you are not actually GETTING BLUFFED.

M'kay?

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Sorry, I was just joking probably should've put a [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] there. Anyway, I was referring to the spades hitting 1 in 5 that will cause you to fold. Secondly I was also referring to the kqj that will make you sick to your stomach when he shoves turn. So that is a lot of cards on the turn that you will hate!!! Almost 35-40% of the deck actually will look ugly. I know you probably don't have a ton of experience with this guy but I have thousands of hands with him. Trust me you're going to want to shove on his ass and while you may not be fist pumping when he calls, you won't be tremendously nervous either.

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You don't seem to understand that if he's pushing EVERY SINGLE K-J turn (non-spade) regardless of his holding, it doesn't matter how "ugly" it looks, calling every time will be printing money. The fact that he always pushes these turns is a GOOD thing for you.

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It won't be so GOOD when he has one of them. Besides are we still calling when a spade hit? Christ man that would be one bold call. Even if we have him pegged and we know he will fire all these turns, are we still calling when the turn is the queen of spades? I know what you mean and are trying to get at, but I still don't see why you wouldn't just raise it all in on the flop and hope for the best. It just makes life easier. Plus the pot is big at this point and a lot of consideration should be given to the fact that you are protecting a pretty decent sized pot now at this point. I mean I guess under your logic there is NO hand you should shove the flop with in these situations versus Buckspin. Apparently from what I gather you advocate just trapping him the whole way? Again, I kinda see what you're saying, but I don't like it.

Re: 10\\20 against 20 Buck Spin
 

This is good vs buck