Anything Clearly Better Than The Nautilus/Bowflex Revolution?
 

Assuming about the same size, weight, and price, and a guy who can military press about 170, and will do his aerobics elsewhere. Specifically how would one this compared this to the Powertec multi station?

Re: Anything Clearly Better Than The Nautilus/Bowflex Revolution?
 

Do you even bother to read the stuff other people write in your forums?

Re: Anything Clearly Better Than The Nautilus/Bowflex Revolution?
 

a power cage and barbell wouldn't need any larger of a space, but would be infinitely better.

Re: Anything Clearly Better Than The Nautilus/Bowflex Revolution?
 

Nothing compares to the 4-minute cross-trainer.

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/828/romkw4.jpg

Re: Anything Clearly Better Than The Nautilus/Bowflex Revolution?
 

Where do the dildos go?

Re: Anything Clearly Better Than The Nautilus/Bowflex Revolution?
 

Mr Sklansky

Do you know anyone who has used one of those machines (granted, not that model) for a couple years? I don't. I have met several people who have bought one-- only some of whom used it at all before moving it to a corner of the garage and stacking things on it.

Quite apart from the other arguments I would make against such a thing-- find me an advocate who isn't a sales rep or a recent customer.

Re: Anything Clearly Better Than The Nautilus/Bowflex Revolution?
 

rofl

Re: Anything Clearly Better Than The Nautilus/Bowflex Revolution?
 

[ QUOTE ]
and a guy who can military press about 170

[/ QUOTE ]


http://www.newgrounds.com/bbs/user_i...28f77ced80.jpg

Re: Anything Clearly Better Than The Nautilus/Bowflex Revolution?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Nothing compares to the 4-minute cross-trainer.

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/828/romkw4.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]

sarcasm?

Re: Anything Clearly Better Than The Nautilus/Bowflex Revolution?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Nothing compares to the 4-minute cross-trainer.

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/828/romkw4.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]

sarcasm?

[/ QUOTE ]

that looks like it was designed by Pinochet

Re: Anything Clearly Better Than The Nautilus/Bowflex Revolution?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Do you even bother to read the stuff other people write in your forums?

[/ QUOTE ]

Sounds like you are saying there was a thread on such machines already. I just bought a house and have a small to moderate size room on the second floor that I was thinking of putting a Nautilus Revolution in. Or perhaps that Powertec machine except that I worry that 1000 pounds or more on the second floor is dangerous. If this subject was discussed already it would be nice if someone directed me to the appropriate thread.

Re: Anything Clearly Better Than The Nautilus/Bowflex Revolution?
 

David-don't waste your money-all you need is that Tony Little Ab thing they dont sell any more-any Tony Little product really.

Jeseus man-why do yu toil in such trivial blather and remain silent on the Absolute Poker madness?

Also could you PM me some pics of that young chick you screwed?

Re: Anything Clearly Better Than The Nautilus/Bowflex Revolution?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I just bought a house and have a small to moderate size room on the second floor that I was thinking of putting a Nautilus Revolution in. Or perhaps that Powertec machine except that I worry that 1000 pounds or more on the second floor is dangerous.

[/ QUOTE ]

I nearly said something in this vein in my other post. I think part of the success of these machine's marketing is how they work aesthetically in one's home/office/den/etc.

I think one does well to divorce interior decorating from the equation. And like I said, I'd bother to argue against the machine, if I found a non sales person telling me of their value.

Re: Anything Clearly Better Than The Nautilus/Bowflex Revolution?
 

DS,

You'll get a lot better advice in this forum if you state your goals and plans. This sounds crazy saying to one of the founders, but it's the truth.

The truth is that you could prob get a better work out for less money by buying a rack and a bench with a few hundred pounds of weights to go with it. Everyone is different though, and maybe the bowflex is right for you.

Re: Anything Clearly Better Than The Nautilus/Bowflex Revolution?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Do you even bother to read the stuff other people write in your forums?

[/ QUOTE ]

Sounds like you are saying there was a thread on such machines already. I just bought a house and have a small to moderate size room on the second floor that I was thinking of putting a Nautilus Revolution in. Or perhaps that Powertec machine except that I worry that 1000 pounds or more on the second floor is dangerous. If this subject was discussed already it would be nice if someone directed me to the appropriate thread.

[/ QUOTE ]

or you could get some equipment like in these vids and do real workouts

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjaTd_ZemkQ
http://www.rosstraining.com/articles/hardcore.html

Re: Anything Clearly Better Than The Nautilus/Bowflex Revolution? *DELETED*
 

Post deleted by durron597

Re: Anything Clearly Better Than The Nautilus/Bowflex Revolution?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Do you even bother to read the stuff other people write in your forums?

[/ QUOTE ]

Sounds like you are saying there was a thread on such machines already. I just bought a house and have a small to moderate size room on the second floor that I was thinking of putting a Nautilus Revolution in. Or perhaps that Powertec machine except that I worry that 1000 pounds or more on the second floor is dangerous. If this subject was discussed already it would be nice if someone directed me to the appropriate thread.

[/ QUOTE ]

*DELETED*

[/ QUOTE ]
lol. you'll be missed thremp.

Re: Anything Clearly Better Than The Nautilus/Bowflex Revolution?
 

[ QUOTE ]
*DELETED*


[/ QUOTE ] WOW! see ya.

Re: Anything Clearly Better Than The Nautilus/Bowflex Revolution? *DEL
 

[ QUOTE ]
Post deleted by durron597

[/ QUOTE ]

yes, why don't you take some time off

Re: Anything Clearly Better Than The Nautilus/Bowflex Revolution? *DEL
 

David,

I looked seriously at the Bowflex Revolution, was even pricing them on ebay and such. Instead I decided to get a kettlebell.

Less cost, takes up less room,both strength and aerobic, etc. There's not a lot in my thread, but there's a ton of information in the threads I link in my first post.

Re: Anything Clearly Better Than The Nautilus/Bowflex Revolution? *DEL
 

Kettlebells are fun and a skill challenge to use, too, which makes exercising feel like less of a burden, too, making you more likely to want to keep it up.

David, you seem like the kind of guy who would be both intrigued by the challenge and gratified by the undeniable simplicity and utility of kettlebells.

Re: Anything Clearly Better Than The Nautilus/Bowflex Revolution? *DEL
 

Yeah, kettlebells + a full range of resistance therabands would be a pretty complete equipment set.

I'm not sure I would put my gym on the 2nd floor though. Garage would be a better choice. You need to be able to drop your weights if you have to and not worry about them going through the floor.

Re: Anything Clearly Better Than The Nautilus/Bowflex Revolution? *DEL
 

If you can military press 170 lbs(assuming with free weights) then I really think your too strong for a bowflex or a nautilus.
Dunno who I would recommend one too anyway

Re: Anything Clearly Better Than The Nautilus/Bowflex Revolution? *DEL
 

[ QUOTE ]
If you can fight 30 five-year-olds then I really think your too strong for a bowflex or a nautilus.

[/ QUOTE ]

fyp

Re: Anything Clearly Better Than The Nautilus/Bowflex Revolution? *DEL
 

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, kettlebells + a full range of resistance therabands would be a pretty complete equipment set.

I'm not sure I would put my gym on the 2nd floor though. Garage would be a better choice. You need to be able to drop your weights if you have to and not worry about them going through the floor.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yup. A gym is best in a basement, or garage, or a separate purpose-built building even. Anyway, at least on the first floor. On the second floor, the noise will echo all through the house. Even if there are no plates dropping, machines create more momentum than you would think, and that sets up reverb through the flooring. I mean even an exercise bike will make a ton of noise if it's not on the ground floor. Seriously. Plus those little squeaks you don't even notice on a machine while you're using it carry further than you think.

On the bands note, I like them a lot too, and have used them separately and in conjunction with kettlebells for military presses. I've even deadlifted with them. They're inexpensive and take up little room and weigh next to nothing, so are easy to move around. Heck, you can even find a million ways to use them lying on the couch watching t.v. And they're fantastically portable. Their lightness and versatility make them perfect for travelers, too. They can also help on stretching and yoga exercises. Pretty much everyone can benefit from them one way or another.

Re: Anything Clearly Better Than The Nautilus/Bowflex Revolution? *DEL
 

David Sklansky is my favorite author. It feels strange giving him advice instead of me reading his advice.

Thanks for deleting Thremps post. Thremp was a good poster for awhile. He had been getting too aggressive and rude lately. I hope he comes back nicer. Now onto the point:

The advice on kettlebells and free weights is good advice.

I would not buy a Nautilus or Bowflex at all. I have been training 10+years, I can military press more than 170 lbs and I weigh around 250 pounds and I have bench pressed 400+, and I own a Total Bodyworks 5000. This machine is awesome for what pot odds you get for the price. http://dsp.imageg.net/graphics/produ...main_p275w.jpg

The Total Bodyworks 5000 is basicly a knock off of a Total Gym and both are very good. You can do over 50+ different exercises and you use your own weight as resistance.

A new TotalBodyWorks 5000 is under $100 online.

I would get one of these for a fraction of the Bowflex price and add some freeweights and kettlebells and dumbells.

Clarifying
 

Hey guys,

Please stop trying to save me money. I already have an Olympic weight set in the garage and am a member of a gym. I might not look it now, but once was in very good shape and know quite a bit about the subject. I am fully aware that simple equipment used right is better than the best equipment used not as well.

But I have this extra room and I want to fill it up with an effective machine that also looks pretty good. The Powertec doesn't use an individual weight stack but rather plates. You can't drop the weight but at times it could weigh 1000 pounds. The Revolution uses something different than the bowflex rods and I have never seen it in person.

The two machines mentioned, to my knowledge, are kind of unique. The other alternatives would be the best Bowflex or one of the numerous type of multistation machines that uses weight stacks.

So far it seems like everyone here is kind of inexperienced about this stuff thinking that a 45 minute workout on a $100 machine is better than a 40 minute workout on a $3000 machine. Who taught you to think this way?

Re: Clarifying
 

[ QUOTE ]
So far it seems like everyone here is kind of inexperienced about this stuff thinking that a 45 minute workout on a $100 machine is better than a 40 minute workout on a $3000 machine. Who taught you to think this way?


[/ QUOTE ] machines suck.

Re: Clarifying
 

You aren't a sucker because those machines are expensive-- you are a sucker because you are slurping up a marketing campaign designed for suckers and you think you understand the opposition, but you don't.

I could go on, but you apparently are gifted with such superior analytic abilities that whatever I think is based on a faulty construct (even if I were right) or a lack of appreciation of your fitness level/needs.

So good luck with your home gym. I'm sure one of those machines could be part of an excellent home fitness routine and I hope you are happy with it as an accessory, too.

Re: Clarifying
 

[ QUOTE ]
You aren't a sucker because those machines are expensive-- you are a sucker because you are slurping up a marketing campaign designed for suckers and you think you understand the opposition, but you don't.

I could go on, but you apparently are gifted with such superior analytic abilities that whatever I think is based on a faulty construct (even if I were right) or a lack of appreciation of your fitness level/needs.


So good luck with your home gym. I'm sure one of those machines could be part of an excellent home fitness routine and I hope you are happy with it as an accessory, too.

[/ QUOTE ]

Where did all that come from? I just want to know which machine that takes up about fifty square feet looks and works the best in a second floor room.

Re: Clarifying
 

[ QUOTE ]

So far it seems like everyone here is kind of inexperienced about this stuff thinking that a 45 minute workout on a $100 machine is better than a 40 minute workout on a $3000 machine. Who taught you to think this way?

[/ QUOTE ]
pretty sure he's trolling us.

Re: Clarifying
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You aren't a sucker because those machines are expensive-- you are a sucker because you are slurping up a marketing campaign designed for suckers and you think you understand the opposition, but you don't.

I could go on, but you apparently are gifted with such superior analytic abilities that whatever I think is based on a faulty construct (even if I were right) or a lack of appreciation of your fitness level/needs.


So good luck with your home gym. I'm sure one of those machines could be part of an excellent home fitness routine and I hope you are happy with it as an accessory, too.

[/ QUOTE ]

Where did all that come from? I just want to know which machine that takes up about fifty square feet looks and works the best in a second floor room.


[/ QUOTE ]

I was reacting to:

"Please stop trying to save me money."

"So far it seems like everyone here is kind of inexperienced about this stuff thinking [X and Y]. Who taught you to think this way?"

I considered it a mis-diagnosis of the response you obtained generally, and from me, specifically.

To get back on what is apparently the correct track: I think ultimately you can trust your own opinion of what looks the best, but running it by an interior decorator couldn't hurt. I have no idea which one works the best, but it seems likely that the value is marginal enough that utility shouldn't be the governing factor (aesthetics or some kind of acquired/associated status should). As I said, good luck and good health.

Re: Clarifying
 

The answer you got was the best one but you're rejecting it. Screw machines.

They do not make you anywhere near as strong as weights or develop you functionally as well. Reliance on stabilizer muscles, from the muscles around your ribcage to your abs and obliques and lower back, and including your legs, is what teaches you to lift properly and gives you strength that's applicable in the real world, including sports. When you give that up, you give up a LOT, and what people are doing is warning you that you probably are undervaluing that by a country mile.

Don't assume that everyone with a different point of view than your own is always dumber than you are or flat out ignorant. In this instance especially, you would do well not to jump to that favorite conclusion. You really do yourself a noticeable disservice by using machines.

But if that's what you want to do, so be it and more power to you. Some of us were just trying to help.

Re: Clarifying
 

David, if you just want something that looks cool and is useless for fitness, may I make some alternative suggestions that also cost around $5000 ?

1. Stuffed animals "

http://www.hookstripers.com/images/lion_deer.jpg

2. Multi-mon setup :

http://www.pibmug.com/files/wideview.jpg

3. DDR machine (great for fitness too) :

http://www.arcade-machine.com/Ddr-machine.jpg

4. Real doll (also a good workout) :

http://www.hammeruncut.com/pics/realdoll2.jpg

Re: Clarifying
 

Why are you bringing up weights vs machines when I am asking for a comparison of machines? But as long as you did bring up the subject, what about the fact that free weights don't stress you to the max through the total range of motion while some machines do?

Re: Clarifying
 

[ QUOTE ]
Why are you bringing up weights vs machines when I am asking for a comparison of machines? But as long as you did bring up the subject, what about the fact that free weights don't stress you to the max through the total range of motion while some machines do?

[/ QUOTE ]

http://firstrung.co.uk/dbimgs/iStock...of%20worms.jpg

Re: Clarifying
 

[ QUOTE ]
Why are you bringing up weights vs machines when I am asking for a comparison of machines?

[/ QUOTE ]

david, to draw a comparison, it may be like someone coming to you and asking what the best ken warren poker book is and you tell them they are all bad. the person responds "but which one is the best? i really want one."

Re: Clarifying
 

[ QUOTE ]
Why are you bringing up weights vs machines when I am asking for a comparison of machines? But as long as you did bring up the subject, what about the fact that free weights don't stress you to the max through the total range of motion while some machines do?

[/ QUOTE ]
David, I think I understand where you're coming from. When you do a rep of squats or bench press, for instance, there is some portion of the lift that is relatively easy, usually the top portion of the lift. To counter this, you can drape chains over the ends of the barbell so that when you lower the weight it gets lighter, and when you raise it it gets heavier. This provides a more uniform amount of effort required to move the bar throughout the entire motion.

Now on to the subject of machines. While the resistance throughout the range of motion of a particular machine exercise may be pretty constant or even get more difficult, it is the actual movements themselves that are far inferior. Machines force you to work in their line of motion, not the body's natural line of motion. They also are often single joint exercises. Leg exercises on machines are also wayyyyyy wayyy inferior. There is nothing better than a barbell squat. PERIOD. You load the bar on your back, and everything underneath that is working to move that weight up. Furthermore, you can't do deadlifts with machines either. Do heavy deadlifts and come back and tell me that free weights don't stress you to the max.

Re: Clarifying
 

[ QUOTE ]
Why are you bringing up weights vs machines when I am asking for a comparison of machines? But as long as you did bring up the subject, what about the fact that free weights don't stress you to the max through the total range of motion while some machines do?

[/ QUOTE ]

I brought it up because a lot of the feedback here was trying to alert you that you weren't on the best track in the first place. We were trying to change the subject because we thought it would be more helpful to steer you the right way than help you choose the lesser of two evils. You didn't seem to understand why that was, and we wanted you to understand that and consider alternatives. Perhaps being dead-set on getting one machine versus another is looking at your fitness needs in a way that won't get you maximum value, and I don't mean monetarily.

Regarding the utility of free weights and range of motion, it is machines that limit you, not free weights. You can get whatever range of motion you like with free weights, vastly more variety, and there are ways to make sure that you get fully challenged through the entire range of motions with free weights, too.

If you go to bodybuilding.com, and I think on t-nation.com too, you will find articles on using chains and bands. Bands have already been mentioned here. What they can do is keep it so that the end of a movement when lifting free weights, which is often fairly easy as most of the work is already done, remains hard.

With chains, you pile them on the floor on either side of the bar and tie one end to each end of a bar. As the bar goes up, you lift more and more chain. This adds weight as you go through the full range of the motion, and forces you to lift just as explosively at the end of, say, a bench press as at the beginning. Pile on however much chain you want, and it's easy to increment. You can do the same sort of thing with resistance bands. They actually get harder to stretch the more you stretch them, so as your bench press or military press or whatever goes up, the bands keep the movement hard throughout. Both methods are extremely easy to set up, versatile, and cheap, and work like gangbusters.

Importantly though, that's far from the whole story of why free weights are so good. The necessity to stabilize your weight when lifting free weights contributes to properly handling your body and utilizing tension and coordination effectively. Those things are needed for strength, and for athletic performance in general, practiced coordination of your body, from its base at the legs up, is extremely important. It's where the power in batting and boxing and tennis and even lifting things up around the house comes from. Machine-built muscles crafted in isolation can't be applied very well in real life, because the coordination to do so has not been discovered, much less drilled.

Additionally, there are frequent complaints with many machines about uneven tension as well. Those machines are gorgeous, and they do offer some value, but the value you give up is also a very important consideration. There are neither competive bodybuilders nor competitive strength athletes who base their training on machines; they are just an inferior solution.

Which is not to say you won't enjoy one and enjoy using one. But people are trying to discourage you from giving up too much to gain too little, and it really has nothing to do with price.

Re: Clarifying
 

[ QUOTE ]
[W]hat about the fact that free weights don't stress you to the max through the total range of motion while some machines do?

[/ QUOTE ]

While I have no doubt that you have thought about this and therefore must be correct, I'm still curious: Did you first hear this claim from a sales person or read it on a brochure?

edit: BTW, I'm not questioning the truth or falsity or relevance. I just want to know where you first heard it.