Trips on Flop A kicker Called push- Too Aggressive?
 

Just checking to see what you guys think of calling the push here on the flop. I think here I was only a slight favorite despite the fact that one player had a made FH. Played right or too aggressive? I have been trying to play more aggressive lately because in the past I have been weak and folded when I was a marginal favorite at times. Is this call long term +EV?

Full Tilt Poker
Pot Limit Omaha Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
9 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
Janellebb7: $48
UTG+1: $45.95
MP1: $26.95
MP2: $61.60
MP3: $88.65
CO: $15.75
Button: $65.10
SB: $35.90
BB: $36.25

Pre-flop: (9 players) Janellebb7 is UTG with 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Janellebb7 calls $0.5 <font color="aaaaaa">(pot was $0.75)</font>, UTG+1 calls $0.5 <font color="aaaaaa">(pot was $1.25)</font>, MP1 folds, MP2 calls $0.5 <font color="aaaaaa">(pot was $1.75)</font>, MP3 calls $0.5 <font color="aaaaaa">(pot was $2.25)</font>, CO folds, <font color="#cc0000">Button raises to $1</font>, SB folds, BB calls $0.5 <font color="aaaaaa">(pot was $3.75)</font>, Janellebb7 calls $0.5 <font color="aaaaaa">(pot was $4.25)</font>, UTG+1 calls $0.5 <font color="aaaaaa">(pot was $4.75)</font>, MP2 calls $0.5 <font color="aaaaaa">(pot was $5.25)</font>, MP3 calls $0.5 <font color="aaaaaa">(pot was $5.75)</font>.

Flop: 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($6.25, 6 players)
BB checks, <font color="#cc0000">Janellebb7 bets $6.5</font>, UTG+1 calls $6.5 <font color="aaaaaa">(pot was $12.75)</font>, MP2 folds, <font color="#cc0000">MP3 raises to $32.5</font>, 2 folds, <font color="#cc0000">Janellebb7 raises all-in $47</font>, <font color="#cc0000">UTG+1 calls all-in $38.45</font>, MP3 calls $14.5 <font color="aaaaaa">(pot was $124.2)</font>.

Turn: Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($145.2, 1 player + 2 all-in - Main pot: $141.1, Sidepot 1: $4.1)


River: A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($145.2, 1 player + 2 all-in - Main pot: $141.1, Sidepot 1: $4.1)


Results:
Final pot: $145.2
<font color="#ffffff">Janellebb7 showed 9s 6c Ac 3d</font>
<font color="#ffffff">UTG+1 showed 8h 8s 7d 5s</font>
<font color="#ffffff">MP3 showed 7c 5d Kc 9d</font>

Re: Trips on Flop A kicker Called push- Too Aggressive?
 

Fold this hand preflop. Stacking off on the flop is not great if you really think mp3 has fh. You have 9 outs assuming other villian has 9xxx.

Re: Trips on Flop A kicker Called push- Too Aggressive?
 

fold pre flop like chucky said.

ugh, i'd prefer to have the ace and 2 over cards to the 8 on the board to comfortbly stack off.

this line is usually the same hand as you or he already has you beat.

tough spot........fold.

if i have 2 overcards to the 8 on board with ace.........i stack off gladly.

Re: Trips on Flop A kicker Called push- Too Aggressive?
 

I would also like to know what is the general strategy on flop when having top trips on paired frop and A + 2 overcards in pocket? Is it wise to try to put all the chips in most of the time or try to catch a card on turn cheaply?

Re: Trips on Flop A kicker Called push- Too Aggressive?
 

I'm asking this because I've had times when I raise pot on flop, other player calls and hits underfull on turn. And then I'm already too pot commited or just can't lay my hand down.

Re: Trips on Flop A kicker Called push- Too Aggressive?
 

utg this is an easy fold preflop.

in general "i'd prefer to have the ace and 2 over cards to the 8 on the board to comfortbly stack off." is a good rule of thumb. but against some villians i'd strongly consider to just fold when i am faced with a lot of action.

Re: Trips on Flop A kicker Called push- Too Aggressive?
 

looking at the results, its hard to see anyone can have been happy stacking off on this flop! the problem you have here as other have aluded too is the lack of any side cards to your A9 - with a 3 way all in its 99.9% (estimated :0P) that someone has 88 and the other players have 9xxx. you are a roughly 36% fav when the cards get flipped, so in this spot its slightly +ev but its the occasion when 88 and 98 are out that makes this a fold on the flop for me here - in this spot you would be drawing to the ace and have all of 16% equity in the hand

Re: Trips on Flop A kicker Called push- Too Aggressive?
 

I don't think you could fault a fold or a push here. I agree that having 3 overcards instead of one makes this an easy push. I'd play this the same. As you can see the one that pushes is the one with the worst hand. The guy that really needs to shove.... just called. This kind of thing is why I can't get away from this at these levels.

Re: Trips on Flop A kicker Called push- Too Aggressive?
 

I open-fold A963ss on the button. Playing it UTG at a FR table is beyond bad. What's your VPIP anyway? 55? 60? Playing FR, you should be trying to keep it under 30 and from EP, you should be under 25.

Re: Trips on Flop A kicker Called push- Too Aggressive?
 

Iggy my VPIP is currently 36.58 lol not 60, but I admit I like to limp in with Axxx suited a lot because of the nut flush possibility. I have been doing it because I feel like when I hit a flush a lot of times I get paid off by anyone with a lesser flush. But you are right I think I should only do this in late position and not early position.

I have been limping a lot in pots because there are so many limpers in fullring, and I like to try and play the hand after the flop and see what develops.

I think I will start tightening up my preflop play because it is getting me into a lot of difficult situations like this ( although this hand paid off). I didn't like having to make a decision when I was so slight, ever so slight a favorite.

Re: Trips on Flop A kicker Called push- Too Aggressive?
 

Bad hand preflop. As played you can fold the flop, b/c unless your opponents are terrible/overvalue wraps, someone has to be full here, or have the case 9. Your hand would have considerably more flop value if it included additional overcards to the 8.

Re: Trips on Flop A kicker Called push- Too Aggressive?
 

If its a loose passive game preflop (as the min raise seems to indicate in this hand) I see no problem with playing suited aces preflop if you know that you can see a flop cheap and multi-way. I would prefer to have a few overs to the 8 on the board aside from the ace, but I really dont mind stacking off on this flop either. Fine hand... Seems pretty standard to me.

Re: Trips on Flop A kicker Called push- Too Aggressive?
 

[ QUOTE ]
You have 9 outs assuming other villian has 9xxx.

[/ QUOTE ]

you only have 9 outs if villain has exactly 88 with exactly one of your sidecards.

Re: Trips on Flop A kicker Called push- Too Aggressive?
 

I said other villian. The guy who called in between hero and raiser. I assume that the caller has 9xxx. Unless calling villian has 98xx, hero has 9 outs to fh.

Re: Trips on Flop A kicker Called push- Too Aggressive?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I said other villian. The guy who called in between hero and raiser. I assume that the caller has 9xxx. Unless calling villian has 98xx, hero has 9 outs to fh.

[/ QUOTE ]

you seem to be missing my point.

Re: Trips on Flop A kicker Called push- Too Aggressive?
 

No. I get your point. Max outs are 10. 88 may have Ace, but given position of villian I doubt 6 or 3 along with ace is in villian's hand. 8863 just isnt that likely. I guess you will see a886, but not a major part of 88xx range.

Re: Trips on Flop A kicker Called push- Too Aggressive?
 

either there's some miscommunication here or you're totally clueless.

Re: Trips on Flop A kicker Called push- Too Aggressive?
 

Ok so gordo you don't think that what I decided to do was ultimately all that bad a play? Preflop and end result? You think I should refrain from this limp preflop or it is okay to loosen up?