88 vs 2 maniacs, turn/river decisions
 

MP is 40/30/3 maniac who coldcaps w/A8o and 3bets any 2 broadway and pretty much any pair, any Ax, any Kx, any Qxs and a whole plethora of random trash.
CO was seperated at birth and is 40/35/3 and 3bets all the same as MP and more.

Any hand they're in together results in a preflop cap.


Absolute Poker $1/$2 Limit Hold'em - 6 players
Hand Converter Tool from DeucesCracked.com

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
<font color="#FF0000">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#FF0000">MP 3-bets</font>, <font color="#FF0000">CO caps!</font>, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds, Hero calls, MP calls.

Flop: (13.50 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#FF0000">MP bets</font>, CO calls, <font color="#FF0000">Hero raises</font>, MP calls, CO calls.

Turn: (9.75 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#FF0000">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#FF0000">MP raises</font>, CO folds, Hero calls.

River: (13.75 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#FF0000">MP bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 15.75 BB
I don't ever fold this PF against these 2 since I'm lightyears ahead of their range and they've been doing this at least twice an orbit.

I think the flop raise was mandatory since they're both probably drawing to 6 outs, but I wonder if a donk check on the turn would have been more appropriate since its now HU and after calling the flop c/r he's going to SD. It's important to note that he WILL BET every time I check on the turn.

Re: 88 vs 2 maniacs, turn/river decisions
 

[ QUOTE ]
but I wonder if a donk check on the turn would have been more appropriate since its now HU

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't understand this.

Re: 88 vs 2 maniacs, turn/river decisions
 

In retrospect that statement makes little sense even to me, I don't know what I was thinking when I wrote that part.

Re: 88 vs 2 maniacs, turn/river decisions
 

[ QUOTE ]
In retrospect that statement makes little sense even to me, I don't know what I was thinking when I wrote that part.

[/ QUOTE ]

Did the converter mess up? Do you want to clarify the action? What is this HU on the turn business?

Re: 88 vs 2 maniacs, turn/river decisions
 

Converter didn't mess up, hand is HU on the turn, title may have been misleading, it's 2 LAGS preflop, I knock one out with my flop raise, really I'm just cooncerned about the action on the turn and river HU against MP.

Since so much of his range is UI OCs when those last two fall, I think I probably should have b/f turn or tossed on the river. I'm more inclined towards calling the turn and folding the river UI since his turn raise could easily be a FD he picked up w/the J.

Re: 88 vs 2 maniacs, turn/river decisions
 

[ QUOTE ]

Turn: (9.75 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#FF0000">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#FF0000">MP raises</font>, CO folds, Hero calls.

River: (13.75 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#FF0000">MP bets</font>, Hero calls.


[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Converter didn't mess up, hand is HU on the turn, title may have been misleading, it's 2 LAGS preflop, I knock one out with my flop raise, really I'm just cooncerned about the action on the turn and river HU against MP.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're not making any sense.

Re: 88 vs 2 maniacs, turn/river decisions
 

If you know he's going to bluff turn/river, I c/c down.

Re: 88 vs 2 maniacs, turn/river decisions
 

If it's HU on the turn and you know he will bet 100% when checked to you have an easy checkraise - you will be in front here most of the time.

Re: 88 vs 2 maniacs, turn/river decisions
 

I think you played it ok. One thing is sure: never fold versus maniacs!

edit: he will bet when you check to him, but he will usually bluffraise too, so the lines aren't much different

Re: 88 vs 2 maniacs, turn/river decisions
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Turn: (9.75 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#FF0000">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#FF0000">MP raises</font>, CO folds, Hero calls.

River: (13.75 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#FF0000">MP bets</font>, Hero calls.


[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Converter didn't mess up, hand is HU on the turn, title may have been misleading, it's 2 LAGS preflop, I knock one out with my flop raise, really I'm just cooncerned about the action on the turn and river HU against MP.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're not making any sense.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ohhh, didn't notice, yeah converter messed up, CO folded on the flop.

Re: 88 vs 2 maniacs, turn/river decisions
 

*grunch*

Based on your reads.....

I don't understand the bet out on the flop, your just asking for it to be raised and possibly 3bet putting you in an awful spot for the rest of the hand with what is potentially the best hand. This is a play to be made if you WANT it to be 3bet/caped on the flop action. Just check it out and reevaluate from there.


Basically your job here is to get to a showdown as cheaply as possible cause your not folding w/ 3 undercards hitting. I would Maybe find a fold if an A hit and the action is still 3 ways but probably not.

Re: 88 vs 2 maniacs, turn/river decisions
 

I would bet out on this flop. Our holding is vulnerable to any overcards and the chance of MP raising and facing CO with 2 bets cold is good. A c/r does the opposite, it doesn't protect your hand but rather ties both players to the pot. Being in a pot with 2 lags and a semi-strong hand is a nightmare. I'm doing everything in my power to get things hu on the flop.

Re: 88 vs 2 maniacs, turn/river decisions
 

OP, I think you played this hand perfectly and if you got beat by this player type its a cooler but you have to show this down.

Re: Flop play, you get an excellent flop for your hand. You c/r both of these guys for pure value. Donking is a good play as well, if MP will continue to rep an overpair whether he has one or not. Unsure if that is the case with this player, so I take the standard route and c/r the field.

Turn play: you must bet. At the start of the action, you are still 3 ways. After you get raised, you are HU and can safely call down any river card. I would never fold against the player you described. If I had a read that he spewiness is limited to preflop play, I would consider folding, but still probably call down.

Re: 88 vs 2 maniacs, turn/river decisions
 

pre-flop is fine

flop you are OOP and you really can't protect your hand so I would just check call and wait for the turn to raise for value.

The way you played the turn I would call down after the raise.

On the turn I would have check-raised (if CO folds) if he bets EVERY turn. Then call down a 3-bet since the pot is so big.