AKs TPTK, line check
 

Villain 24/21/2.4
Hows my line? I was unsure how to play this. C/R turn AI?

Poker Stars, $0.25/$0.50 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 5 Players
LegoPoker Hand History Converter

CO: $57.95
BTN: $9.95
SB: $160.35
BB: $125.65
Hero (UTG): $49.25

Pre-Flop: K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (UTG)
<font color="red">Hero raises to $2</font>, CO calls $2, 3 folds

Flop: ($4.75) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $3.50</font>, CO calls $3.50

Turn: ($11.75) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Hero checks, <font color="red">CO bets $10</font>, Hero calls $10

River: ($31.75) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Hero checks, <font color="red">CO bets $42.45 and is All-In</font>, Hero ???

Re: AKs TPTK, line check
 

i would love to know how to play this type of hand as well. my stats are somewhat similar to this guy's and i think you're beat on river way too often to call.

Re: AKs TPTK, line check
 

I don't see any reason to slow down on the turn. I would bet about $9. If villain calls the flop and then raises the turn its usually a monster and we can let go. As played I would fold the river. The only hands we are beating are weaker aces and I think a lot of the time villain will have AT, 88, 1010 here.

Re: AKs TPTK, line check
 

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I don't see any reason to slow down on the turn. I would bet about $9. If villain calls the flop and then raises the turn its usually a monster and we can let go. As played I would fold the river. The only hands we are beating are weaker aces and I think a lot of the time villain will have AT, 88, 1010 here.

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this is what i was thinking but look at his stats, he easily 3bets these hands? surely?

Re: AKs TPTK, line check
 

Bet/fold the turn. As played river is an insta muck.

Re: AKs TPTK, line check
 

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I don't see any reason to slow down on the turn. I would bet about $9. If villain calls the flop and then raises the turn its usually a monster and we can let go. As played I would fold the river. The only hands we are beating are weaker aces and I think a lot of the time villain will have AT, 88, 1010 here.

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this is what i was thinking but look at his stats, he easily 3bets these hands? surely?

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I don't think that he would 3-bet those hands to an UTG raiser.

Re: AKs TPTK, line check
 

I don't think villain is 3beting us pf with those hands when we raise utg. If we'd been on the button or cutoff then I would agree with you.

Re: AKs TPTK, line check
 

How has the villain been playing postflop?

As played, if you call his turn bet, I think you have to call the river.

Re: AKs TPTK, line check
 

c/r turn AI. Let him float you or bluff you etc and then hammer time.

Re: AKs TPTK, line check
 

Your checked turn gave him the impression that you had a low kicker. So he became more aggressive because (assuming he had Ax) he thought his kicker was better than yours.

You were (apparently unintentionally) giving him misinformation, and he was reacting to it. Should always keep in mind what your opponent thinks of you...

Re: AKs TPTK, line check
 

Ha... funny how lots of us focus on the turn but for different reasons...

Re: AKs TPTK, line check
 

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Your checked turn gave him the impression that you had a low kicker. So he became more aggressive because (assuming he had Ax) he thought his kicker was better than yours.

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So if he has Ax where and he thinks his ace is good, how would he expect a worse hand to call that overbet?

This is rarely a one pair hand. Nuts or nothing imo.

I fold river.

Re: AKs TPTK, line check
 

With stats like that, we can assume villain knows big bets are for big hands. I agree the only thing we really beat is a bluff.

Re: AKs TPTK, line check
 

What was the result?

I don't think you should have slowed down on the turn. I would lean towards a call on the river because as said you unintentionally gave villian the impression that you were C betting the flop and slowed on the turn. The fact you raised UTG suggests either pair or Ax so if you had a pair you'd C bet flop to rep A. I don't think with stats like his he will just call with 8s or 10s espeically when you raised UTG. i mean he can't just expect to flop a set and hope to stack your Ax can he

Re: AKs TPTK, line check
 

grunch...
i bet like 7 or 8 on the turn. it's just enough so that it gets value out of weaker aces and also looks pretty weak in itself. one problem with the latter reason, though, is that it leaves you open to be raised on the turn, and tptk in that spot vs. a 24/21 is never a fun spot - unless you're both 2p2, you both know it, and he's trying to pull some baluga metagame on you. but that's unlikely.

Re: AKs TPTK, line check
 

OOP I think you need to lead the turn for sure and fold to a raise. If called then b/f river. If he's floaty and attacks weakness then the c/r all in is perfect. As played I would lead the river, but fold to any action.

Re: AKs TPTK, line check
 

I'd fold but it's marginal.

Like everyone's said i can't really see him showing Ax (maybe AQ). Good TAGs love to pounce upon any weakness. By checking 2 streets it just encourags him to fire on the river. I'd prefer to just lead turn and take it down there although this isn't a bad line if you're prepared to call large river bets on safer boards and embrace variance.

I'd call if the river had blanked but a few suited connectors just got there (JQ, T9). I think this is 2pair+ or bluff but the 9 on the river is pretty scary IMO.

Re: AKs TPTK, line check
 

If u check that turn it must be to get it in with a c/r.. Lead turn for 9.50.. The turn card is as blank as they come, why slow down if not to get max value with c/r?

Re: AKs TPTK, line check
 

I think c/c is the worst line to take here.
If the guy has been calling ip, floating you etc then just crai otherwise bet the turn.
As played I fold the river unless I have some amazing read

Re: AKs TPTK, line check
 

way this is played fold, but i would bet the turn about 3/4 pot or c/r all in.

Re: AKs TPTK, line check
 

I may be missing something but i think check-raising all in on turn is the worst option. A decent TAG (like his stats suggest) just isn't going to have Ax in this spot. His range is heavily weighted towards mid-low pocket pairs and suited connectors.

I think either hero's drawing to 5 (or less) outs or villain is. So why would we want to give villain the chance to play perfectly and call with his 2 pair or better hands and fold his bluffs. To me check raising is ugly in this spot.

I'd prefer tojust lead out turn to make the hand so much easier but now that we've checked the turn we should call and give him a chance to bluff again on the river.

Bet&gt;&gt;c/c&gt;&gt;&gt;c/r

Re: AKs TPTK, line check
 

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I may be missing something but i think check-raising all in on turn is the worst option.

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I actually agree and have to go back on what I said in my first reply. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] Against this type of opponent it's not a good play, but I still feel that c/c and c/f river is just as bad.. U don't get any information on where u stand.. It's a clear bet, and in most instances a fold to a raise without good reads

Re: AKs TPTK, line check
 

If you have some history with him ie. he has been floating a lot, CRAI looks good. River is an easy fold.

Re: AKs TPTK, line check
 

I called and he flipped over 55. Nice. In all honestly when I make that call Im often behind but at the time I just couldnt see him flat calling pre flop with position with 88/1010/A10 type hands. His river bet at the time seemed very odd to me aswell, definately not a VB as like many of you said my line does not suggest I have a hand as strong as TPTK. Someone before said it and I agree, this was either the nuts or air.
Agreed that betting the turn makes my decisions so much easier in this spot though!

Re: AKs TPTK, line check
 

The fact that the turn is a blank makes the turn even easier to bet. If he's decent he know he doesn't have the odds to call with a straight draw with only one card to come. Sets and 2pair will raise the turn and if he's bluffraising the turn he's too good (for me at least).

Re: AKs TPTK, line check
 

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I actually agree and have to go back on what I said in my first reply. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] Against this type of opponent it's not a good play, but I still feel that c/c and c/f river is just as bad.. U don't get any information on where u stand.. It's a clear bet, and in most instances a fold to a raise without good reads

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Yeah c/c turn c/f river is pretty gross too. I only said fold initially because i think the 9 on the river completed a few hands for villan.

I think this is a clear bet on the turn but if it's against a real maniac i'll sometimes c/c turn and any river because i under-rep the hand so much. But that way you have to be prepared for surprises when he flips over the nuts.

Re: AKs TPTK, line check
 

I've seen about 300 "fold" responses without a single wording of villians range? Wtf do you put villian on, simply saying fold gives no in-depth analysis of anything and just makes u look like you are trying to act like a credible player IMO.

I am not saying this is a fold or call as I am undecided ATM, but just saying fold is retarted, what do you think villians range is here?

p.s I lead turn, and probably shove turn as played.

Re: AKs TPTK, line check
 

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Wtf do you put villian on, simply saying fold gives no in-depth analysis of anything and just makes u look like you are trying to act like a credible player IMO.

p.s I lead turn, and probably shove turn as played.

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As played, I think it's best to fold on the river. Because Hero didn't push on the turn, he lost information he could have had about Villain's hand. And his c/c gave Villain misinformation (seems Hero did it not to be misleading, but unintentionally). And Villain responded to that misinformation with extreme aggression...

The whole hand was thrown out of balance because of the c/c. And because of this, Hero doesn't know enough about Villain's holdings to put his entire stack on the line... so I think he should fold!

I agree with you about pushing on the turn... I probably woulda gone all-in on the river after that. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: AKs TPTK, line check
 

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I've seen about 300 "fold" responses without a single wording of villians range? Wtf do you put villian on, simply saying fold gives no in-depth analysis of anything and just makes u look like you are trying to act like a credible player IMO.

I am not saying this is a fold or call as I am undecided ATM, but just saying fold is retarted, what do you think villians range is here?

p.s I lead turn, and probably shove turn as played.

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Basically a overpush on the river usually mean a monster such as a set etc

Re: AKs TPTK, line check
 

My personal feeling is that a lot of villains range consists of a float/bluff, where he feels as if he can steal the pot from you on a later street. Id assign about 50% of his range to this. Players with those stats do not call twice in position with a good hand especially against a player like us that often with a made hand.

There is a chance he called here with a weaker ace. He mightve called with AQ or AJ (I doubt it) thinking he can either steal the pot later or OP was raising on the lower end of his range (PP, KQ, SC), calling hte CB and waitin for the turn. Ill give this 15% of his range.

Then there is the times he has something like a 97, J9, again calling planning on outplaying OP later in the hand, by applying pressure or by outflopping his opponent. Another 15%.

Then there are times we are beat. A set, maybe T8 (if we include 97 and J9, T8 must be in the range). This here is 20%

More often than not we are ahead. TPTK is a really strong hand, esp on this board against this opponent. Hence I say we c/r AI on the turn, let him bluff you/float you/attempt to VB with a worse hand and get his ass committed behind or folding putting in a decent amount. This will also establish credibility on your turn checks against him as now everytime you CB and then check the turn doesnt mean you missed.

Re: AKs TPTK, line check
 

either bet/fold turn or c/r ai. I like c/r AI for reasons Emc gives above. If your checking becuase you want to keep the pot small, not a good idea OOP against an aggro player. The only way I could get away from this hand is if I bet $7-8 on the turn and got raised.

Re: AKs TPTK, line check
 

I actually don't hate this line against an aggro player as long as we plan on calling any river bet.