Chasing a draw early on
 

Would love to get some thoughts on the following play. "Deep-stack" tournament at a local casino. At the second level, blinds are 50-100. I have about what I started with (8000). I have been involved in a few pots and have made several lay-downs. Not sure of my image although I think I come off as pretty tight. The table is quite tough with a number of tournament regulars. Gets folded around to me at the cut-off and I raise to 400 with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Button calls. Button is very straightforward and playing tight. He has me covered by about 3000 chips.

The flop comes A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

I lead out with a bet of 600.

Button raises to 1600

I call.

Turn comes 6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

I check, button bets 1600. I put him on a bigger ace, maybe a set but unlikely. I think for while, do the math and determine that I am getting very close to the right price to call and do so.

I would appreciate any comments on any aspect of this hand, from pre-flop on.

Thanks,

Kevin

Re: Chasing a draw early on
 

Fold pre flop. As played i like the line right up until the turn, then just fold fold fold. It is far too early in the tournament to be risking chips with a FD here, you'll find yourself in better spots down the line.

Re: Chasing a draw early on
 

Reraise all in or fold on flop. 40% chance of hitting flush + fold equity makes this > calling with 1/3 of your stack, no?

Re: Chasing a draw early on
 

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Reraise all in or fold on flop. 40% chance of hitting flush + fold equity makes this > calling with 1/3 of your stack, no?

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mehh.. i think its more like 36%..

Re: Chasing a draw early on
 

Like 36% of villian has ak and 25% is villian has a set. still fold or all in to gamboool. Could this be +ev with FE?

Re: Chasing a draw early on
 

By the turn, you have already commited a quarter of your stack, calling is obv. a total spew. IMO i think i would be c/folding here. OTOH, everyone like a CRAI semi bluff form time to time. against a tight player though, i dont think this would be the best idea. i've just spent the last 8 hours talking to accountants, my head is fried.

Re: Chasing a draw early on
 

Thanks so much for the replies. Question: why is a call on the turn a spew? Its 1600 into an almost 6000 chip pot. I would have folded to a bet that was even half the pot on the turn but the bet was less than that.

Re: Chasing a draw early on
 

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pennypacker

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do you have scabies?

Re: Chasing a draw early on
 

Its a Seinfeld reference. My ususal screen name, Avandelay, was taken. For Seinfeld fans, Pennypacker, a wealthy industrialist, is an identity assumed by Kramer.

Re: Chasing a draw early on
 

fold at this point because you are out of position and have no way to get paid if you peel off a club. what are you going to do donk pot after bet-call/check-call?

Re: Chasing a draw early on
 

control the pot size preflop by openraising to like 250...you want the pot small if your better than your opponents postflop.

Re: Chasing a draw early on
 

[ QUOTE ]
Its a Seinfeld reference. My ususal screen name, Avandelay, was taken. For Seinfeld fans, Pennypacker, a wealthy industrialist, is an identity assumed by Kramer.

[/ QUOTE ]

oh. it's also a freshman dorm at harvard that just recently had a scabies outbreak, or at least they thought it was but it turned out not to be or something

Re: Chasing a draw early on
 

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control the pot size preflop by openraising to like 250...you want the pot small if your better than your opponents postflop.

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FOLD>400>250....Would you make the same raise with other hands bakes?

Re: Chasing a draw early on
 

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Fold pre flop

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only if you're terrible. 400 is too big though. 300 is fine.

Re: Chasing a draw early on
 

a lot of the time in live tournaments, if the standard raise is 400 and you start making it 300, players will start call your bets more often preflop (at least)
I'm not sure how this pertains to this particular situation but im just putting it out there.

Re: Chasing a draw early on
 

I typically lay this down preflop, but by no means a bad play, for 5% of your stack.

preflop if I raise I would have raised to 2.5X or 3X the BB (always in first few levels... unless I have a monster and I have a fish to play with). This may reduce the size of your bet on the flop, and his raise on the flop... which is good for drawing hands. On the flop, I like the lead out to represent the A. In hind site, sure would have been nice to check, call, but I would have represented the A as well. This is your 1 chance this hand to fold, and I like the call.

On the turn, call is automatic, and fold if you don't hit the river. Guy is tight so if you hit bet like 1900. Gives him a couple of chips to think he can call and make a come back. Anymore and you probably lose him.

Re: Chasing a draw early on
 

300 pre > folding

Re: Chasing a draw early on
 

When you're as deepstacked as you are, I wouldn't even bother raising Kc8c pf. As played, flop looks fine, check/fold the turn.

Re: Chasing a draw early on
 

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Fold pre flop

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only if you're terrible. 400 is too big though. 300 is fine.

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Re: Chasing a draw early on
 

Preflop: 250 or 275 is way better than 400. 400 is god-awful.
Flop: I'm probably check/raising that [censored]. He rarely has AK so unless he has a set or is a fish he's folding. Once you bet and get raised, I like the call versus shoving without a read.
Turn: As played, turbo-muck unless he's bad enough to call a shove on a club riv despite your transparent line.

Re: Chasing a draw early on
 

Pre-flop is fine.

Flop pot odds to call = 3150/1000 = 3.2:1 and you need 38/9 = 4.2:1 to hit

You have to crai or fold this flop. You're not getting pot odds to hit your flush and if you hit it's too likely that villain will put you on FD. Only if villain is also on FD do you get paid off enough to give you implied odds to call, and that's not likely enough to justify a call.

Turn is a definite fold, not even close. 5750/1600 = 3.6:1 and you need 35/9 = 4.1:1

Re: Chasing a draw early on
 

Thanks for the responses. Given what I know about the hand, a raise all-in on the flop either as a check-raise or as a third bet was probably the better line. The villan had AQ and told me, because of my raise pf, he did not put me on a flush draw. I am pretty sure he would have laid down AQ on the flop to an all-in bet. I missed the river and checked and he checked behind saying "AK is good".

Re: Chasing a draw early on
 

Are people actually saying that folding K8s in the CO with 80bb's effective is correct?

lol