Sunday Million: Flopped bottom set into 3 spades
 

Not a lot of information about the villan here. I have only been at the table for a few orbits.

Besides the preflop action what do you think? When he reraises the flop I'm thinking either over pair, top pair or something like aj, jk or even ak aq, etc, with one spade or one spade plus a pair.

either way how do you play this?

Hand History Preview
Poker Stars, $200 + $15 NL Hold'em Tournament, 100/200 Blinds, 8 Players
LegoPoker Hand History Converter

MP2: 11,900
CO: 9,500
BTN: 20,025
SB: 11,050
BB: 7,250
UTG: 8,175
Hero (UTG+1): 12,150
MP1: 7,850

Pre-Flop: (300) 3 3 dealt to Hero (UTG+1)
UTG raises to 600, Hero calls 600, 7 folds

Flop: (1,500) J 3 4 (2 Players)
UTG bets 800, Hero raises to 2,200, UTG raises to 7,575 and is All-In, Hero...

Re: Sunday Million: Flopped bottom set into 3 spades
 

In the Sunday Million, this definitely a call.

Re: Sunday Million: Flopped bottom set into 3 spades
 

whats the question?

call obviously

Re: Sunday Million: Flopped bottom set into 3 spades
 

[ QUOTE ]
wherever, this shallow, this is definitely a call.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Sunday Million: Flopped bottom set into 3 spades
 

snap call, I fold preflop though.

Re: Sunday Million: Flopped bottom set into 3 spades
 

[ QUOTE ]
snap call, I fold preflop though.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Sunday Million: Flopped bottom set into 3 spades
 

do you always fold small PPs in this spot preflop? if so what is your normal range (ex. folding 22-66? or something like that?)
I dont mind calling 3bbs early on ina n effort to get this type of flop.

thoughts?

Re: Sunday Million: Flopped bottom set into 3 spades
 

calling this preflop without a very specific read on the opponent and the table is quite a leak, if you dont see this you have to look over your game.

putting in 8% of the effective stack for pure set value vs an UTG raiser with whole table left to act are left to act is bad.

Re: Sunday Million: Flopped bottom set into 3 spades
 

You simply cannot call here pre-flop with 6 people left to act...

Re: Sunday Million: Flopped bottom set into 3 spades
 

[ QUOTE ]
do you always fold small PPs in this spot preflop? if so what is your normal range (ex. folding 22-66? or something like that?)
I dont mind calling 3bbs early on ina n effort to get this type of flop.

thoughts?

[/ QUOTE ]

Good thing this was brought up. I'm certain it's a very common leak of many players. A big chunk of those players don't even know about the leak. I've come halfway in dealing with this problem, I know I suffer from it but in the heat of action, I still make the calls hoping to flop a set. The same goes for suited connectors... First, note that UTG only has 8K behind, so you have worse implied odds. Second, I don't know how many times I've made the call cause it's "just 5% of my stack", only to see someone make a raise behind. Do this a couple of times, and you'll be into push-or-fold-mode pretty soon...

Re: Sunday Million: Flopped bottom set into 3 spades
 

interesting points...

at what point do you think reraising is a good option? maybe not necessarily from this spot but lets say Im one off the button or something like that...do you still say toss the 33 (or other low PP) or do you reraise?

and you never call with position to the utg raiser?

Re: Sunday Million: Flopped bottom set into 3 spades
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
snap call, I fold preflop though.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Sunday Million: Flopped bottom set into 3 spades
 

[ QUOTE ]
do you always fold small PPs in this spot preflop? if so what is your normal range (ex. folding 22-66? or something like that?)
I dont mind calling 3bbs early on ina n effort to get this type of flop.

thoughts?

[/ QUOTE ]

Along with the potential of the OR being squeezed/3-bet from behind; our relative position also sux, and we will probably lose any chance of trapping addl dead money if there are addl callers. pretty quick fold PrF, IMO.

Re: Sunday Million: Flopped bottom set into 3 spades
 

[ QUOTE ]
interesting points...

at what point do you think reraising is a good option? maybe not necessarily from this spot but lets say Im one off the button or something like that...do you still say toss the 33 (or other low PP) or do you reraise?

and you never call with position to the utg raiser?

[/ QUOTE ]
in CO calling here sucks somewhat less sinse you have better absolute and relative position, but still sucks.

reraising an UTG raiser (esp if it commits you to call a push) with small PPs is generally bad unless you have a VERY good read that he very often raises from any position but will fold to a 3-bet.

in the hand you posted the only position I probably would consider calling the raise is from BB, both with and without cold-callers.

Re: Sunday Million: Flopped bottom set into 3 spades
 

snap call

Re: Sunday Million: Flopped bottom set into 3 spades
 

I fold this preflop as well, but I would definitely call any pair later in the action in this situation. UTG+1 just inviting someone to squeeze.

On the flop, its a call.
1. He may have a flush, and you have a 2:1 shot of drawing out

2. He most likely has over pair with flush draw, or pair and a flush draw, and you are 2:1 or better

3. He has a bigger set, and you are down to 1 out and are basically FUBAR'ed

I think the odds are in your favor.

Re: Sunday Million: Flopped bottom set into 3 spades
 

I think I'm folding this preflop vs the utg raiser. As played, I call his flop shove all day.

Re: Sunday Million: Flopped bottom set into 3 spades
 

Agree with folding preflop. He basically has to stack off every time you hit a set for this to be profitable for you, since sometimes you'll flop a set and still lose. This condition of him stacking off every time you hit is impossible, obviously. And also you're gonna get squeezed out of the pot fairly regularly, so it's not even close to a good call preflop.
On the flop, what's the question? Call LDO.

Re: Sunday Million: Flopped bottom set into 3 spades
 

[ ] Fold pre

autobust if you're beat

Re: Sunday Million: Flopped bottom set into 3 spades
 

yeah i definitely dont call PF directly behind the raiser, but once you do folding is ridiculous.

Re: Sunday Million: Flopped bottom set into 3 spades
 

does someone calling this raise in any position except for maybe BB in Heros situation?

Re: Sunday Million: Flopped bottom set into 3 spades
 

I like this thread. As played, you're ahead of his AA or KK but he's probably re-drawing.

As for the general concepts, 33 is a fold in this position all day long.

It's probably a call in the big blind hoping he has AA or KK and will stack off when you hit your set. Otherwise, if someone else enters the pot with a cold call, I'd come along in late position, SB or BB with better effective odds and better implied odds (more players involved to hit their hand and dump chips).

Re: Sunday Million: Flopped bottom set into 3 spades
 

I would have taken a card off and shoved a non spade river

Re: Sunday Million: Flopped bottom set into 3 spades
 

[ QUOTE ]
does someone calling this raise in any position except for maybe BB in Heros situation?

[/ QUOTE ]

With no callers in-between us and OR, probably not. Even if we are OTB, and make this call, I dont like the idea of the blinds coming in and killing our PoF position. It would also depend on ORs opening range, and how aggro the blinds have been playing. Given the stacks, our hand is binary enough where PoF is pretty simple even if we get caught with bad RP; but generally I would just let it go.