this is probably why goofyballer thinks i am nuts
 

multitabling 23/13/4, doesn't play a lot OOP

about $250 to him

No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

SB ($370.10)
BB ($190)
UTG ($98)
Hero ($487.90)
Button ($190)

Preflop: Hero is MP with 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $7</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB calls $6, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>.

Flop: ($16) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $13</font>, SB calls $13.

Turn: ($42) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $28</font>, SB calls $28.

River: ($98) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets $65, Hero raises to $374.90 and is all-in.</font>

Re: this is probably why goofyballer thinks i am nuts
 

you dont think this is a flush most of the time?

hm upon rereading, i do find it hard to believe he has a flush here. i assume youre trying to bluff 2p/sets?

Re: this is probably why goofyballer thinks i am nuts
 

stupid as balls

Re: this is probably why goofyballer thinks i am nuts
 

Hate it.

Re: this is probably why goofyballer thinks i am nuts
 

[ QUOTE ]
you dont think this is a flush most of the time?

hm upon rereading, i do find it hard to believe he has a flush here. i assume youre trying to bluff 2p/sets?

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How is villain ever getting to the river like this with sets/ two pairs?

Most likely hand is a flush by far.

Re: this is probably why goofyballer thinks i am nuts
 

Yes, he seems to be bet folding. Not sure about your bet size though, I might be tempted to look it up.

Re: this is probably why goofyballer thinks i am nuts
 

I agree with goofy

Re: this is probably why goofyballer thinks i am nuts
 

Well if Villain took this line and didn't snap-call he is a frigging idiot. Which is very possible, of course.

Re: this is probably why goofyballer thinks i am nuts
 

i really think villains most likely hand is some kind of combo draw that got there. how else would he play it differently oop? if 2 pairs and sets are in his range flushes are as well.

Re: this is probably why goofyballer thinks i am nuts
 

he played it exactly like a flush draw, what's your reasoning terp?

Re: this is probably why goofyballer thinks i am nuts
 

so bad..

Re: this is probably why goofyballer thinks i am nuts
 

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if 2 pairs and sets are in his range flushes are as well.

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yeah i realized this a few min ago. terp and i are trying to figure out how often he folds...

Re: this is probably why goofyballer thinks i am nuts
 

some thoughts:

1) i am betting this river with anything i am calling $65 with. i believe villain is good enough, despite the donkish appearance of his pre/flop/turn play to recognize this.

2) i don't expect to fold out flushes often, if ever. i expect him to call with a flush close to 95% or so (just a guess). that said, this isn't the kind of play i just whip out every 100 hands so he shouldn't feel great calling off another 125BBs here.

3) the crux of this hand is the ratio of how often he has 56/78/89/77+/{hands i beat anyway} to how often he has a flush.

thoughts?

Re: this is probably why goofyballer thinks i am nuts
 

I am one of the spewiest of spewtads and play nothing like goofy, and think this is bad.

Re: this is probably why goofyballer thinks i am nuts
 

Also, I don't think he has a flush that often, unless it's a flush draw that picked up extra outs on the turn like 9/x spades or JTss. Also, he like never folds a set or 2 pair.

Re: this is probably why goofyballer thinks i am nuts
 

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Also, he like never folds a set or 2 pair.

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that is just really untrue in a pot this big.

whether he gets to the river this way with a set or 2p is another matter. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: this is probably why goofyballer thinks i am nuts
 

I don't know. I personally agree that he puts you on an over and value bets 87 or 77 here. He does not want to make it look like a blocking bet, since he is afraid to get raised and wants some value. I don't think a 23/13 at this level is capable of thinking through taking this line to induce a bluff. I also disregard a flush draw given the texture of the board, his position in the blinds and AF.

Re: this is probably why goofyballer thinks i am nuts
 

i like it

Re: this is probably why goofyballer thinks i am nuts
 

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Hate it.

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Re: this is probably why goofyballer thinks i am nuts
 

i do this too much so i kinda like it, aslong as you know villan will lay down sets/2pairs enough when that river comes

edit: what range of hands do you think ull fold out here? if your the villan and he has a set/straight is this a standard fold or call?

Re: this is probably why goofyballer thinks i am nuts
 

not horrific, but probably -EV

Re: this is probably why goofyballer thinks i am nuts
 

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I agree with goofy

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Re: this is probably why goofyballer thinks i am nuts
 

If this play is correct I need to get a lot of male hormones before I move up to that table.

Re: this is probably why goofyballer thinks i am nuts
 

I think this is fine once in a while, especially against a regular which it sounds like this guy is.

The biggest problem is that you say he doesn't play much oop so if he does have a flush, it's most likely a big one which he's never folding (I know you're not trying to fold out flushes but it'd be nice to have some FE vs smaller flushes here and it seems as though this is a non-existent part of his range).

I think that he has 2 pair, 77 enough to make this work and when it doesn't, it doesn't really matter all that much since he's a regular opponent and I assume that you're doing this for value &gt; 90% or so.

Re: this is probably why goofyballer thinks i am nuts
 

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1) i am betting this river with anything i am calling $65 with. i believe villain is good enough, despite the donkish appearance of his pre/flop/turn play to recognize this.

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By this logic he should never bet any hand here?

Re: this is probably why goofyballer thinks i am nuts
 

more reads needed for this to be good.

- how often does he 3bet?
- any chance of him calling all streets with a FD?
- does he think you are fairly likely to bet 2 streets with a FD?

I mean it's nice you can get him to fold 99/TT, but a 77 has a set now, and i don't get why he suddenly comes out with a blocker bet with his weaker hands after calling two streets.

Re: this is probably why goofyballer thinks i am nuts
 

this is beyond terrible

Re: this is probably why goofyballer thinks i am nuts
 

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this is beyond terrible

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Ya, I can't see why some people think it is 'ok'

Re: this is probably why goofyballer thinks i am nuts
 

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1) i am betting this river with anything i am calling $65 with. i believe villain is good enough, despite the donkish appearance of his pre/flop/turn play to recognize this.

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By this logic he should never bet any hand here?

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explain?

Re: this is probably why goofyballer thinks i am nuts
 

i think some of you are missing how mammoth op's hand looks. what do you guys need to call if you're the villain?

Re: this is probably why goofyballer thinks i am nuts
 

Don't bluff tight villains who are valuebetting.

Also, your turn bet is weak. With the as played turn bet your rivershove is awful. With the as played turn bet your turn bet is horrible.

Re: this is probably why goofyballer thinks i am nuts
 

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i think some of you are missing how mammoth op's hand looks. what do you guys need to call if you're the villain?

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if we're villain what do we show up with that we don't call with? not much imo, although villains line is a bit weird.

Re: this is probably why goofyballer thinks i am nuts
 

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not horrific, but probably -EV

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Re: this is probably why goofyballer thinks i am nuts
 

Meh. If he's a thinking villain it's really hard for him to call you with anything that he was calling with earlier.

His range here is gonna be like PPs 77 and under (maybe 88/99/TT), half of which are sets, and SCs- which we can probably rule out because of the way the board is (only logical one for him to call with on flop is 7s6s and the 7s came on the river). I guess he could have 98, but I just don't see him betting that out on the river.

If randomly he has a baby flush here, he's not folding, but if he has a set it's really, really hard for him to call since there are three to a straight and 3 to a flush out there. Still dunno if I like it thought without lots of history and a stronger read.

Re: this is probably why goofyballer thinks i am nuts
 

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Also, your turn bet is weak.

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Why is the turn bet weak? This is basically a blank card and he's still firing, that would scare the crap out of me.

Re: this is probably why goofyballer thinks i am nuts
 

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Also, your turn bet is weak.

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Why is the turn bet weak? This is basically a blank card and he's still firing, that would scare the crap out of me.

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My bad. I thought it was weaker than it actually is.

Still, if you're gonna double barrel do it good. He's not folding anything to that bet on that turncard.

Re: this is probably why goofyballer thinks i am nuts
 

i think he has a set, and will probably call river.

Re: this is probably why goofyballer thinks i am nuts
 

[ QUOTE ]
i think he has a set, and will probably call river.

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how the [censored] is he supposed to call river with a set? op didn't say anything about the villain being horrible.

Re: this is probably why goofyballer thinks i am nuts
 

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Don't bluff tight villains who are valuebetting.


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are these not the best people to bluff


overall i don't like it though. you don't have to win every pot

Re: this is probably why goofyballer thinks i am nuts
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

1) i am betting this river with anything i am calling $65 with. i believe villain is good enough, despite the donkish appearance of his pre/flop/turn play to recognize this.

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By this logic he should never bet any hand here?

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I was about to post almost the same thing. Almost. Because by this logic he should only bet bluffs. Thus call and profit.

But generally I just don't agree with the reasoning. He won't realise this.