1st and 15 or 2nd and 10?
 

watching the Dallas/Vikings game... Cowboys make a stop on a deep pass on first down, Vikings had illegal formation, Cowboys declined. This made me think: would you rather have a team at 2nd and 10 or 1st and 15?

Re: 1st and 15 or 2nd and 10?
 

1st and 15...not an expert on this though just seems better to me maybe im stupid

Re: 1st and 15 or 2nd and 10?
 

I think it depends pretty heavily on the quality of your offense. Really good offenses should take 1st and 15, bad ones should take 2nd and ten. No idea if thats right, it just seems like its easier for a good offense to run bad and have to punt with less downs, the yards don't matter as much, and a bad offense can luckbox a big play but they cant afford to waste yards. Since most of their plays are for small amounts the yards are worth more.

Could it be that as long as you have more than 5 yards per play average you should always be taking the 1st and 15?

Re: 1st and 15 or 2nd and 10?
 

well this is from the perspective of the defense

Re: 1st and 15 or 2nd and 10?
 

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well this is from the perspective of the defense

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Ok then reverse it?

Re: 1st and 15 or 2nd and 10?
 

mathematically 1st and 15, psychologically 2nd and 10 (from the defensive perspective)

Re: 1st and 15 or 2nd and 10?
 

Second and ten but field position matters to some extent. If teams went for it on 4th down more often maybe 1st/15 but everyone punts so I'll go with only two more downs to stop unless it moves them out of FG range or something like that.

Re: 1st and 15 or 2nd and 10?
 

I'd go w/ 2nd and 10. Fewer snaps by the offense can only be good for the defense.

Re: 1st and 15 or 2nd and 10?
 

I didn't read OP and voted wrong. 1st and 15 is better for the offense.

Re: 1st and 15 or 2nd and 10?
 

Against Minnesota? 2nd and 10. Dallas is smart.

Re: 1st and 15 or 2nd and 10?
 

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I didn't read OP and voted wrong. 1st and 15 is better for the offense.

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Always?

Re: 1st and 15 or 2nd and 10?
 

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Against Minnesota? 2nd and 10. Dallas is smart.

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Re: 1st and 15 or 2nd and 10?
 

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Against Minnesota? 2nd and 10. Dallas is smart.

[/ QUOTE ]Don't you want more plays from Jackson though? Heh.

Re: 1st and 15 or 2nd and 10?
 

An interesting poll would be to ask ppl if they answered the OP from the perspective of the defense or the offense. I'm guessing it's about 50/50.

Re: 1st and 15 or 2nd and 10?
 

from defense position:

if it kicks them out of FG position, 1 and 15.
if they are fighting the clock and will go on 4th down, i'd lean on 2 and 10.
if your defense is really tired, 2 and 10.
if their offense is tired, 1 and 15.
if your defense can take their offense no problem, 1 and 15.

too many factors.

Re: 1st and 15 or 2nd and 10?
 

There are a lot of factors in this, Washington's defense took a 2nd & 10 over a 1st & 15 against Arizona today also, and I thought it was a good idea at the time, because the Washington defense was getting tired and needed to get the ball back to the offense ASAP for other reasons.

Re: 1st and 15 or 2nd and 10?
 

Depends on the situation.

I hate giving those responses, but it really does.

I think defenses would rather have 2nd and ten though. I'm not sure, but wouldn't an offense have more options on first and 15 than on 2nd and 10? If so, then there's more to prepare for and more unpredictability in 1st and 15.

Re: 1st and 15 or 2nd and 10?
 

Well one thing that changes the situation is that it's 4 down territory for the Vikings. I mean down 10 points with 5 minutes at midfield they could never punt.

Re: 1st and 15 or 2nd and 10?
 

It really depends on a number of things. However, if they're anywhere near field goal range, you obviously push them back 5 yards.

Re: 1st and 15 or 2nd and 10?
 

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Well one thing that changes the situation is that it's 4 down territory for the Vikings. I mean down 10 points with 5 minutes at midfield they could never punt.

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ha

Re: 1st and 15 or 2nd and 10?
 

With 1st and 15, an incomplete pass (variance) is less damaging than on 2nd and 10, which would force you to make 10 yards in one play. On 2nd and 15, the defense has to defend both a short pass/run and a longer pass, whereas they can keep things in front of them on the 3rd and 10.

Re: 1st and 15 or 2nd and 10?
 

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Against Minnesota? 2nd and 10. Dallas is smart.

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Second that.

Re: 1st and 15 or 2nd and 10?
 

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An interesting poll would be to ask ppl if they answered the OP from the perspective of the defense or the offense. I'm guessing it's about 50/50.

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Yeah, "would you rather have a team at 2nd and 10 or 1st and 15?" is pretty vague. I answered from the D's perspective and while there are a lot of other things I'd like to know, I'd usually rather have them be at 2nd and 10. "Usually" isn't like 99% though.

Re: 1st and 15 or 2nd and 10?
 

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Depends on the situation.

I hate giving those responses, but it really does.


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What's the score? How much time is left (in the half? in the game?) What type of defense are you playing (prevent/standard)? What type of offense do they have?

In general, early part of the game I think you take the 5 yard penalty. 5 is likely > yards per play. Other than that all factors will come into play.

Re: 1st and 15 or 2nd and 10?
 

I think the answer is definitely 2nd and 10.

Having 3 plays to get 15 yards is much better than having 2 plays to get 10.

You can plan out how to get the yards in decent chunks in 3 plays better.

A more interesting question imo, 2nd and 20 or 3rd and 10? You see this often if there is a holding call on a 2nd and 10.

Which is typically better for the DEFENSE (which would you take as defensive coach)

Re: 1st and 15 or 2nd and 10?
 

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A more interesting question imo, 2nd and 20 or 3rd and 10?

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That's not interesting at all, because the answer is 2nd and 20.

Re: 1st and 15 or 2nd and 10?
 

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An interesting poll would be to ask ppl if they answered the OP from the perspective of the defense or the offense. I'm guessing it's about 50/50.

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Yeah, "would you rather have a team at 2nd and 10 or 1st and 15?" is pretty vague. I answered from the D's perspective and while there are a lot of other things I'd like to know, I'd usually rather have them be at 2nd and 10. "Usually" isn't like 99% though.

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yeah sorry shoulda been more clear

Re: 1st and 15 or 2nd and 10?
 

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A more interesting question imo, 2nd and 20 or 3rd and 10?

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That's not interesting at all, because the answer is 2nd and 20.

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Agreed. I feel significantly more confident about my answer to this one.

Re: 1st and 15 or 2nd and 10?
 

Score?
What quarter? Time left (if late in half or game)?
Field position?
Flow of the game to this point?

It depends.

Re: 1st and 15 or 2nd and 10?
 

1st and 15 has got to be better.

Although each requires 5 yards per play before punting, think of it in terms of "implied odds".

From, say your own 20, you need 15 for the first but 80 for TD. But with the ball 3 times as opposed to 2, you might end up covering much more of that 80 yards with three plays than with two.

That is to say, you may end up punting an equal amount in each scenario, but when you do move the chains with 3 tries, you may do so in a much bigger way. Of the times you punt, it doesn't matter, you're punting. Of the times you get a first you may end up doing more damage with the third attempt.

EDIT: Think about the difference in Y/A average opposed to Y/A median.