PokerStars: Allow Datamining
 

Dear PokerStars,
with the recent Absolute scandals, it's clear that online poker has had its reputation take a hit. Unfortunately, one bad egg does reflect on the whole industry. However, Poker Stars has always stood out as being above the rest. Poker Stars can continue to maintain their lofty perch by allowing unfettered datamining. Only by observing the tables and hands, can players help the internet poker community out by noticing conspicuous activities.

In the last year, hand histories have been used to show the following:
-The whole absolute cheating and chipdumping of hundreds of thousands of dollars
-Bot-farms on Full Tilt
-Bots in the $22 SNGs on Party

Come on poker stars, open it up. Let us help you maintain your reputation.

Sincerely,
a concerned online player

Re: PokerStars: Allow Datamining
 

HA HA.

Come on. This has nothing to do with the scandal. You only want an easy way how to collect data.

[ QUOTE ]
The drug-free MVP

[/ QUOTE ]
are you sure?

Re: PokerStars: Allow Datamining
 

[ QUOTE ]
Dear PokerStars,
with the recent Absolute scandals, it's clear that online poker has had its reputation take a hit. Unfortunately, one bad egg does reflect on the whole industry. However, Poker Stars has always stood out as being above the rest. Poker Stars can continue to maintain their lofty perch by allowing unfettered datamining. Only by observing the tables and hands, can players help the internet poker community out by noticing conspicuous activities.

In the last year, hand histories have been used to show the following:
-The whole absolute cheating and chipdumping of hundreds of thousands of dollars
-Bot-farms on Full Tilt
-Bots in the $22 SNGs on Party

Come on poker stars, open it up. Let us help you maintain your reputation.

Sincerely,
a concerned online player

[/ QUOTE ]

Completely agree, and I've never been fond of datamining.

Re: PokerStars: Allow Datamining
 

[ QUOTE ]
HA HA.

Come on. This has nothing to do with the scandal. You only want an easy way how to collect data.

[ QUOTE ]
The drug-free MVP

[/ QUOTE ]
are you sure?

[/ QUOTE ]

doesnt matter. the negatives of data collection are far outweighed by the positives of uncovering illicit play.

Re: PokerStars: Allow Datamining
 

No.

No and no.

Are you retarded? I may have misunderstood, but you want observers be allowed to see the hands of all players?

Let's just make this PokerFlipaments then.

Re: PokerStars: Allow Datamining
 

no...just allow observers to collect hands and see those showndown....that's been enough to catch all the incidents

don't need to see everyone's hands

Re: PokerStars: Allow Datamining
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
HA HA.

Come on. This has nothing to do with the scandal. You only want an easy way how to collect data.

[ QUOTE ]
The drug-free MVP

[/ QUOTE ]
are you sure?

[/ QUOTE ]

doesnt matter. the negatives of data collection are far outweighed by the positives of uncovering illicit play.

[/ QUOTE ]

the only negative I see is it comes out that there are some violations of T&C going on

is party worse because mining is allowed?
is full tilt worse because mining is allowed?

what is poker stars hiding?

Re: PokerStars: Allow Datamining
 

Agree 100%. Besides, I'm sure some people are already mining Stars, and have for some time.

Re: PokerStars: Allow Datamining
 

PokerStars has not been one of a high stakes site such as Full Tilt and Stars are. The biggest game you'll see going on is probably 200/400 limit, maybeee 500/1000 at times. And most of those players are big time known poker players and/or PokerStars reps.

I don't think PokerStars is hiding anything or need to. I don't think datamining should be allowed unless they adopt Lee Jones' system and make everyone Player1, Player4, Player2, etc. etc. Otherwise, datamining would take a huge part of the game out.

Re: PokerStars: Allow Datamining
 

what huge part of the game does it take out?

I mean, regulars already have a ton of info on other regs....not sure what else there is to it

Re: PokerStars: Allow Datamining
 

[ QUOTE ]
Agree 100%. Besides, I'm sure some people are already mining Stars, and have for some time.

[/ QUOTE ]

they are and they sell their info
it's sick pstars is allowing these guys that break the T&C to make $$$$$ selling hand histories

Re: PokerStars: Allow Datamining
 

Info, yes.

Knowing EXACTLY what they play with is much different than having reads/'info' on other players.

Re: PokerStars: Allow Datamining
 

HOW would seeing a FEW hands at showdown allow someone to detect whether another player was using a "program" to see others hole cards. Detecting a pattern like this takes more information that would be available through your "datamining request".

My vote = NO

Re: PokerStars: Allow Datamining
 

in case you missed it, it was the river aggression factor that highlighted a few of the cheating accounts at AP

it was the large pattern of identical stats at FTP that highlighted the bots




datamining helps



players found it, not the site

Re: PokerStars: Allow Datamining
 

[ QUOTE ]
Info, yes.

Knowing EXACTLY what they play with is much different than having reads/'info' on other players.

[/ QUOTE ]

i know anyway after playing with them enough hands


I'm not talking about seeing everyone's hole cards

just the ones that are shown after the river...like at party and full tilt

Re: PokerStars: Allow Datamining
 

The ones that go to showdown and/or are mucked are shown, you mean every single person's hand, whether they folded preflop or not to be shown after the river?

Re: PokerStars: Allow Datamining
 

just the players who show and try to take down the pot

Re: PokerStars: Allow Datamining
 

[ QUOTE ]
just the players who show and try to take down the pot

[/ QUOTE ]
If you mean
1) players that show
2) players that try to take down the pot
then you seriously aren't drug-free

Basically you want to know who bluffs you and who has a hand when they push you out of the hand. This is not data mining this is semi-cheating.

Re: PokerStars: Allow Datamining
 

i agree with MTT2, and i wouldnt even datamine probably. the small hit i would take from a few people having more info on me is worth it if its THAT much harder bots to go unnoticed, or some other form of cheating. and anyways, i think pokertracker stats are highly overrated for reads on a player, and i doubt datamining would really change my winrate all that much

Re: PokerStars: Allow Datamining
 

Yeah.

If it goes to SHOWDOWN, the cards are already shown. You just have to go back into hand history to see.

If you want to see for who reraises your river bet, then yea..that's cheating more than data mining.

I still say no, it's a retarded idea.

Re: PokerStars: Allow Datamining
 

nits 15 tabling hurt the games a lot more than the rare successful cheating scandal that happened on AP

Re: PokerStars: Allow Datamining
 

[ QUOTE ]
in case you missed it, it was the river aggression factor that highlighted a few of the cheating accounts at AP

[/ QUOTE ]
no it wasn't. You are like republicans: know nothing but who cares whan it cas support their interests.

1) there was a person who started tilting ... said "wait" .. left ... came back ... played like a god.
2) there was a person that gained FULL hand-history log for a tourney. No way you can prove something without this.


[ QUOTE ]
it was the large pattern of identical stats at FTP that highlighted the bots

[/ QUOTE ]
as you said. The regulars have enough stats. They can find it. So you can if you play a lot.
And if you don't why do you care?

You want to datamine because of post-analyzes, don't you?
You don't want to datamine because of "hell what he check-raised river means", do you?

[ QUOTE ]
players found it, not the site

[/ QUOTE ]
AFAIK Pokerstars is the one of the sites that really search for bots.

Re: PokerStars: Allow Datamining
 

[ QUOTE ]
nits 15 tabling hurt the games a lot more than the rare successful cheating scandal that happened on AP

[/ QUOTE ]

but how much [censored] is going on undetected right now that we dont know about, that someone might have discovered who datamines? IMO, datamining just doesnt really increase someone edge enough to matter, so theres not too much to lose by allowing it

Re: PokerStars: Allow Datamining
 

Please stop posting in this thread if you don't understand datamining.

In light of current events I don't see how it can be a good idea for Stars not to allow it.

Re: PokerStars: Allow Datamining
 

[ QUOTE ]
they are and they sell their info
it's sick pstars is allowing these guys that break the T&C to make $$$$$ selling hand histories

[/ QUOTE ]
Nice. Finally we found out the real problem. You don't like they datamine and you can't.
If you want to burn your money by buying some database, do so.

BTW. I thought of buying something before I reached the limits of my computer. Right now I even think of deleting something!
I really doubt anyone who played more 2 months will want to (need to) buy anything...
Maybe when one-tabling. But I really don't care what one-tabling begginers do.

Re: PokerStars: Allow Datamining
 

[ QUOTE ]

Yeah.

If it goes to SHOWDOWN, the cards are already shown. You just have to go back into hand history to see.

If you want to see for who reraises your river bet, then yea..that's cheating more than data mining.

I still say no, it's a retarded idea.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just stop posting now. Every post of yours in this thread has been retarded.

Yes you can look back and see what people who made it to showdown had on the river. What MT2R is asking for is Pokerstars to allow this info to be collected by observers.

Re: PokerStars: Allow Datamining
 

[ QUOTE ]

1) there was a person who started tilting ... said "wait" .. left ... came back ... played like a god.
2) there was a person that gained FULL hand-history log for a tourney. No way you can prove something without this.

[/ QUOTE ]

We figured out there was cheating going on well before the full hand history log came out. So STFU if you don't know what you're talking about you filthy republican.

[ QUOTE ]

Quote:
in case you missed it, it was the river aggression factor that highlighted a few of the cheating accounts at AP


no it wasn't. You are like republicans: know nothing but who cares whan it cas support their interests.

1) there was a person who started tilting ... said "wait" .. left ... came back ... played like a god.
2) there was a person that gained FULL hand-history log for a tourney. No way you can prove something without this.


Quote:
it was the large pattern of identical stats at FTP that highlighted the bots


as you said. The regulars have enough stats. They can find it. So you can if you play a lot.
And if you don't why do you care?

You want to datamine because of post-analyzes, don't you?
You don't want to datamine because of "hell what he check-raised river means", do you?

Quote:
players found it, not the site


AFAIK Pokerstars is the one of the sites that really search for bots.

[/ QUOTE ]

The regulars do not have enough hands to spot these things. It took hundreds of thousands of hands on each player to out the FT bots. This was only able to be done with the help of dataminers.

[ QUOTE ]

You want to datamine because of post-analyzes, don't you?
You don't want to datamine because of "hell what he check-raised river means", do you?

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you speak english? I can barely decipher your [censored].

Datamined hands really aren't that valuable for figuring out what a river checkraise means from a specific opponent unless you think that dataminers are going through all their hands individually(they aren't).

Re: PokerStars: Allow Datamining
 

I agree

I HATE datamining (too lazy to do it on my own, so don't want others to have that edge on me)

but I think it shows bots/scandals etc. etc. and is thus overall good for the industry.

Re: PokerStars: Allow Datamining
 

[ QUOTE ]
Please stop posting in this thread if you don't understand datamining.

[/ QUOTE ]
this is a "only if you agree you can post" thread?
[ QUOTE ]
In light of current events I don't see how it can be a good idea for Stars not to allow it.

[/ QUOTE ]
Then you are the man who really don't understand consequences.


Datamining had NOTHING to do with the disclosure of the scandal.

Re: PokerStars: Allow Datamining
 

[ QUOTE ]

Nice. Finally we found out the real problem. You don't like they datamine and you can't.
If you want to burn your money by buying some database, do so.

[/ QUOTE ]

No you [censored] moron. It's very clear what his motives are. He wants to prevent cheating similar to that which has been brought to light recently with the help of dataminers.

[ QUOTE ]

BTW. I thought of buying something before I reached the limits of my computer. Right now I even think of deleting something!
I really doubt anyone who played more 2 months will want to (need to) buy anything...
Maybe when one-tabling. But I really don't care what one-tabling begginers do.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nobody NEEDS to buy anything. People do because they think it gives them an advantage when in reality any advantage they gain from datamined hands is negligible.

The whole point of this thread is that allow very slight advantages to dataminers is outweighed by the fact that dataminers find bots, chipdumpers, and other cheaters that hurt the games much more.

Re: PokerStars: Allow Datamining
 

My guess is the real reason stars stopped dataming isn't to prevent regs from the info, but to stop sites like sharkscope from posting the LOL lossrates of some fish

After all, even a winning player like myself doesn't like random joe blow knowing my EXACT winrate all the time...especialy when they randomly hit me up on tilt and are like, ZOMG WHY DID YOU HAVE SUCH A BAD YESTERDAY? are you the SUX NOW??

Re: PokerStars: Allow Datamining
 

[ QUOTE ]

this is a "only if you agree you can post" thread?

[/ QUOTE ]

No you [censored] tard. This thread is for those who understand what datamining is and does. You don't now STFU.

[ QUOTE ]

Datamining had NOTHING to do with the disclosure of the scandal.

[/ QUOTE ]

Again you don't know [censored] you stupid [censored].

Datamining was responsible for finding the chipdumping on absolute. Datamining was responsible for finding the bots on Party and Full Tilt.

Re: PokerStars: Allow Datamining
 

[ QUOTE ]
We figured out there was cheating going on well before the full hand history log came out.

[/ QUOTE ]
figured out thanks to datamining?
STFU yourself when you don't know what you are talking about.



[ QUOTE ]
Datamined hands really aren't that valuable for figuring out what a river checkraise means from a specific opponent

[/ QUOTE ]
did you ever had more than 1.000 hands for a single opponent? Dod you ever see some stats?

Re: PokerStars: Allow Datamining
 

Go sit in a casino and do your datamining. Oh thats right you cant do that so why online. Get a life you dont need someone to hold your hand while you play.

Re: PokerStars: Allow Datamining
 

A possible downside - wouldn't large scale datamining make building a better bot easier?

That said, I really don't care either way.

Re: PokerStars: Allow Datamining
 

[ QUOTE ]
It's very clear what his motives are. He wants to prevent cheating similar to that which has been brought to light recently with the help of dataminers.

[/ QUOTE ]
HA HA HA

If he want's to test someone he can use serch function and datamine him.


If he doesn't datamine like 50+ tables the PokerStars won't tell a single thing.

I repeat:
If he doesn't datamine like 50+ tables the PokerStars won't tell a single thing.

As of high stakes: you can datamine ALL tables of a single level without any problem.

Re: PokerStars: Allow Datamining
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Dear PokerStars,
with the recent Absolute scandals, it's clear that online poker has had its reputation take a hit. Unfortunately, one bad egg does reflect on the whole industry. However, Poker Stars has always stood out as being above the rest. Poker Stars can continue to maintain their lofty perch by allowing unfettered datamining. Only by observing the tables and hands, can players help the internet poker community out by noticing conspicuous activities.

In the last year, hand histories have been used to show the following:
-The whole absolute cheating and chipdumping of hundreds of thousands of dollars
-Bot-farms on Full Tilt
-Bots in the $22 SNGs on Party

Come on poker stars, open it up. Let us help you maintain your reputation.

Sincerely,
a concerned online player

[/ QUOTE ]

Completely agree, and I've never been fond of datamining.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: PokerStars: Allow Datamining
 

[ QUOTE ]
After all, even a winning player like myself doesn't like random joe blow knowing my EXACT winrate all the time...especialy when they randomly hit me up on tilt and are like, ZOMG WHY DID YOU HAVE SUCH A BAD YESTERDAY? are you the SUX NOW??

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: PokerStars: Allow Datamining
 

[ QUOTE ]
A possible downside - wouldn't large scale datamining make building a better bot easier?

That said, I really don't care either way.

[/ QUOTE ]
More than that! Bot's cannot operate without a database.

BOTs dont have anything like a "common sense" = they cannot think without it.
Of course I don't suppose someone would program a real AI just to play poker [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: PokerStars: Allow Datamining
 

[ QUOTE ]
sit in a casino and do your datamining. Oh thats right you cant do that so why online. Get a life you dont need someone to hold your hand while you play.

[/ QUOTE ]

Go sit at 8 tables at your local B&M, go tip ur online dealers and go order a drink from your online waitress. Good logic guy, [censored] troll.