So I 3 bet preflop with AKo...
 

and now I'm considering checking TPTK.

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Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. UTG posts a blind of $1.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP1 calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero?

I know it's a horrible idea. But I've seen villian raise 4 hands in this session prior to this and on each 1 he check folded to whomever cold called behind him after they bet. Only once did he bet and that was with KQ and he hit top pair.
Should I ever check against this type of villian?

Re: So I 3 bet preflop with AKo...
 

You probably have the best hand, bet for value, no free cards for SD or FD.

Re: So I 3 bet preflop with AKo...
 

[ QUOTE ]
...I've seen villian raise 4 hands in this session prior to this and on each 1 he check folded to whomever cold called behind him after they bet. Only once did he bet and that was with KQ and he hit top pair.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, so why does this make you start thinking that doing something -EV is a good idea? Is he going to put in bets when a blank falls on the turn? Does it make you happy if he does? How do you know he didn't also hit TP? How do you know he doesn't have a fd that he'll call down?

Re: So I 3 bet preflop with AKo...
 

There are a lot of combos of AT, AJ, AQ you are going to get paid off big with here and he often calls down 99-KK. If he's continuing to fold in this circumstance 3bet his raises with ATC and bet the flop until he catches on.

Re: So I 3 bet preflop with AKo...
 

*grunch*

what happens when it checks through and a spade falls on the turn? are you going to check TPTK again? bet all day long

Re: So I 3 bet preflop with AKo...
 

Our hand is both powerful and vulnerable. Leading out is the right thing to do. Not leading out because we think our opponent plays incorrectly would be a serious mistake. Our goal is to play correctly and profit because our opponents do not.

Re: So I 3 bet preflop with AKo...
 

Does it change anything if it were a rainbow flop?


If he bets the flop I have 2 options raise or call or wait for the turn b/c he is unlikely to bet anything but top pair.

If he checks the flop I can still lead the turn, giving him a chance to catch up if he doesn't have an A.

Re: So I 3 bet preflop with AKo...
 

[ QUOTE ]

I know it's a horrible idea. But I've seen villian raise 4 hands in this session prior to this and on each 1 he check folded to whomever cold called behind him after they bet. Only once did he bet and that was with KQ and he hit top pair.
Should I ever check against this type of villian?

[/ QUOTE ]

Umm just bet. There are many Aces he can have here which you crush. If he folds.. oh well, you win the pot. If he is passive enough to c/f everytime but one after a PF raise, what are you hoping he does here? Do you really think he is going to bet his JJ or whatever? If he has AJ/AQ, he's gonna call your bet anyhow. Giving him free cards is bad.

Serious question : What is it that you are trying to accomplish by checking this flop and hoe does it help you?

Re: So I 3 bet preflop with AKo...
 

well most likely he will miss the turn, and you will bet, and he will fold for a BB, when there's probably a better chance of him calling one SB on the flop. I don't see how you can talk yourself into anything other than betting here, maybe i'm missing something.

Re: So I 3 bet preflop with AKo...
 

[ QUOTE ]


If he checks the flop I can still lead the turn, giving him a chance to catch up if he doesn't have an A.

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What hands does he hold here that you want him to "catch-up" with?

Re: So I 3 bet preflop with AKo...
 

KQ or KJ

Re: So I 3 bet preflop with AKo...
 

You have to bet. sorry.

If he folds then he would not have called your turn bet either and I dont think he is bluffing the turn ever with a hand that he wouldnt call or raise the flop with.

Re: So I 3 bet preflop with AKo...
 

Bet it again, first for protection second for value. Otherwise you are letting villan draw for free.

Rig

Re: So I 3 bet preflop with AKo...
 

At our level, we would lose so much if we mixed it up a lot like this by deceptively playing TPTK slowly.

The reason why is that almost all of our opponents are loose spazzes who call way too much and need the jaws of life to pry cards out of their hands.

Bet. Hope he calls. It's really all you can do.

Re: So I 3 bet preflop with AKo...
 

BBB - value is prime here, you are ahead way more than you are behind.

Re: So I 3 bet preflop with AKo...
 

[ QUOTE ]
I know it's a horrible idea.

[/ QUOTE ]

Best part of this post.

Re: So I 3 bet preflop with AKo...
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What hands does he hold here that you want him to "catch-up" with?


[/ QUOTE ]

KQ or KJ


[/ QUOTE ]

This winds up being a very standard, though involved, EV calc.:

A1= What % do KQ-KJ make up in his range?
A2= How often do they catch up?
A3= Do they always call down?

B1= What % are hands that would call a bet with like AK-AJ?
B2= How often does AQ-AJ overtake when given a FC?
B3= How often does AQ-AJ overtake when paid for?

C1= Is he always folding under pairs to a flop bet?
C2= What % do under pairs make?
C3= How often do they overtake when given a FC?

Do you see where this is going?

Re: So I 3 bet preflop with AKo...
 

I think not, there is nothing substantially wrong with winning a small pot in this scenario. If you had a read on him as hyper aggressive then checkraising would be a good idea, but if he checks after you on flop, you can't really trust that you will gain a bet from him on the Turn...

so just bet to protect your hand, be happy to take down what there is in it... better than watching him turn a set or two pair and get sick in the stomach...

Re: So I 3 bet preflop with AKo...
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think not, there is nothing substantially wrong with winning a small pot in this scenario. If you had a read on him as hyper aggressive then checkraising would be a good idea, but if he checks after you on flop, you can't really trust that you will gain a bet from him on the Turn...

so just bet for value, yo, be happy to take down what there is in it... better than watching him turn a set or two pair and get sick in the stomach...

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP

Re: So I 3 bet preflop with AKo...
 

[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] yo

Re: So I 3 bet preflop with AKo...
 

I'm gonna go ahead and bet this flop because;

a) The pot is fairly substantial
b) Theres a moderate chance he has a worse ace
c) He might call down with a mid pocket pair
d) He could easily have KQs KJs QJs
e) Taking it down on the flop is just fine

Regards Mack

Re: So I 3 bet preflop with AKo...
 

Ok so I bet and this was hypothetical. I was trying to think of different ways of getting value from checking good hands when I'm 85% sure villian is folding. I was throwing this idea out there to see if it had any merit but from the responses it's an autobet 100%.

Re: So I 3 bet preflop with AKo...
 

Bet the flop. If he's raising lightly, that's even more reason for you to get your value bets in!

Re: So I 3 bet preflop with AKo...
 

[ QUOTE ]

Ok so I bet and this was hypothetical. I was trying to think of different ways of getting value from checking good hands when I'm 85% sure villian is folding. I was throwing this idea out there to see if it had any merit but from the responses it's an autobet 100%.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think some did and some did not know you were speaking hypothetically.

You are being spoon-fed the (likely correct) result, but are still obviously wanting.
I suggest a diligent attempt at defending what seems to be the indefensible. It will surely bring you a greater understanding of the situation. BTW, this thread has no empirical data in it to back up the claim that it is an autobet 100%. You need to do this work yourself; Make some assumptions and compare the EVs of Checking Vs. Betting. .

IF you do this, you should have a framework that is easily adjusted to fit other close scenarios.

SSHE and other standard HE books have sections on when to try to extract value. At least relook at those.