25/50 HU vs unknown, river decision with Q high flush
 

Seat 1: hazards21 ($8471 in chips)
Seat 6: hardkAre ($5000 in chips)
hardkAre: posts small blind $25
hazards21: posts big blind $50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to hardkAre [3h Qh]
hardkAre: raises $100 to $150
hazards21: calls $100

*** FLOP *** [9h 3s 6h]

hazards21: checks
hardkAre: checks

*** TURN *** [9h 3s 6h] [3d]

hazards21: bets $200
hardkAre: raises $450 to $650
hazards21: calls $450

*** RIVER *** [9h 3s 6h 3d] [4h]

hazards21: bets $1050
hardkAre: Call, raise, fold?

Villain seems solid/tricky though.

Re: 25/50 HU vs unknown, river decision with Q high flush
 

lOL u must don't know really who Hazards is for playing him hu

Re: 25/50 HU vs unknown, river decision with Q high flush
 

I don't, is he that good?

Re: 25/50 HU vs unknown, river decision with Q high flush
 

He is good and I absolutely hate ur flop check.

What, you slowplaying?

Re: 25/50 HU vs unknown, river decision with Q high flush
 

shove it for value, he has a bigger calling range here than you think because of flop check

Re: 25/50 HU vs unknown, river decision with Q high flush
 

easiest shove in the world.

Re: 25/50 HU vs unknown, river decision with Q high flush
 

Yeah because of flop check, you cant fold this ever.

Re: 25/50 HU vs unknown, river decision with Q high flush
 

very easy shove imo, his hand looks like a 9 or so and you have a nice image so he could make a big call? Also how often is he bet/calling the turn with Ax or Kx hearts, and wouldn't he c/r river with most big hands?

Re: 25/50 HU vs unknown, river decision with Q high flush
 

I dont care how good/tricky villian is..you arent seriously considering folding this hand HU?

Please say no [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Re: 25/50 HU vs unknown, river decision with Q high flush
 

shove or call depending on flow of match. folding is not an option. i dont mind flop check, against good players u have to mix it up so u cannot be read easily

Re: 25/50 HU vs unknown, river decision with Q high flush
 

wtfwtfwtf at flop check... you have the nuts, try to build the pot!

lol at chaoslord you have to mix it up. sure you can check behind with a straight flush sometimes too if you're worried about being read too easily.

Re: 25/50 HU vs unknown, river decision with Q high flush
 

[ QUOTE ]
Seat 1: hazards21 ($8471 in chips)
Seat 6: hardkAre ($5000 in chips)
hardkAre: posts small blind $25
hazards21: posts big blind $50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to hardkAre [3h Qh]
hardkAre: raises $100 to $150
hazards21: calls $100

*** FLOP *** [9h 3s 6h]

hazards21: checks
hardkAre: checks

*** TURN *** [9h 3s 6h] [3d]

hazards21: bets $200
hardkAre: raises $450 to $650
hazards21: calls $450

*** RIVER *** [9h 3s 6h 3d] [4h]

hazards21: bets $1050
hardkAre: Call, raise, fold?

Villain seems solid/tricky though.

[/ QUOTE ]

i have played hazards a bunch HU, and one of his distinguishing characteristics is his extremely high river agg. factor. I don't think he would pot as a bluff, so I doubt he's bluffing here (esp. after calling the turn raise OOP, then donk-potting river).

If you think he is value-betting enough worse hands (triples, lower flushes) then you can shove. Personally, I would 'just call' because it's not that often he will look you up with worse here (this depends on your image).

Re: 25/50 HU vs unknown, river decision with Q high flush
 

also given his line i think he is likely to look you up decently light on a raise (usually bet/calling turn and potting river isn't the strongest of lines) so i'd shove and expect lower flushes and 57 to look me up a decent amount.

Re: 25/50 HU vs unknown, river decision with Q high flush
 

Everyone

Chaoslord has explained the flopcheck.

I thought of folding briefly, but then I realized he'd probably play 8h9h or 5h4h the same way. I'm not sure he'd call turn with a bare FD though, unless it's K or A high, and I'm not sure this villain is stacking off with a 5/8 high flush on the river.

Stinger

Yes but villain probably doesn't know this. I hadn't played him for long when this hand came up. I don't think villain would lead with a 9 on the river for that amount.

Re: 25/50 HU vs unknown, river decision with Q high flush
 

[ QUOTE ]
Everyone

Chaoslord has explained the flopcheck.



[/ QUOTE ]

yes but poorly. i agree sometimes you should check behind your flush draws to disguise your hand when you hit the flush.

and sometimes you should check behind sets to slowplay.

but this hand falls into neither category - it's not a bare flush draw, there's much more value in it and disguised outs should he happen to have a decent hand. and it isn't strong enough to "slowplay" like a set because you can't go nuts when you don't improve.

with those two things in mind, i'd be happy never checking this sort of hand in a heads up match. i don't think i'd actually be giving anything up.

Re: 25/50 HU vs unknown, river decision with Q high flush
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Everyone

Chaoslord has explained the flopcheck.



[/ QUOTE ]

yes but poorly. i agree sometimes you should check behind your flush draws to disguise your hand when you hit the flush.

and sometimes you should check behind sets to slowplay.

but this hand falls into neither category - it's not a bare flush draw, there's much more value in it and disguised outs should he happen to have a decent hand. and it isn't strong enough to "slowplay" like a set because you can't go nuts when you don't improve.

with those two things in mind, i'd be happy never checking this sort of hand in a heads up match. i don't think i'd actually be giving anything up.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly,
your hand is so strong on the flop, but also extremely vulnerable if you don't bet (you lose a lot of equity if he hits a pair on the turn, but with your combo draw on the flop you can always get it in here and never be a huge dog). And it's not as if by betting he puts you squarely on a combo draw.
Also as played just get it in here...

Re: 25/50 HU vs unknown, river decision with Q high flush
 

i'd flat the jack high flush and shove the q high flush

Re: 25/50 HU vs unknown, river decision with Q high flush
 

After betting the flop, do you bet again if a 2c falls on the turn or do you check behind and take your free card?

Re: 25/50 HU vs unknown, river decision with Q high flush
 

[ QUOTE ]
And it's not as if by betting he puts you squarely on a combo draw.

[/ QUOTE ]
yea but he wont put you on it very much, which is more important

Re: 25/50 HU vs unknown, river decision with Q high flush
 

[ QUOTE ]
i'd flat the jack high flush and shove the q high flush

[/ QUOTE ]

this is actually very mathematically sound...not sure if you did the math on this but Q-high flush is a fav. over a random flush, J-high is a dog.

Re: 25/50 HU vs unknown, river decision with Q high flush
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i'd flat the jack high flush and shove the q high flush

[/ QUOTE ]

this is actually very mathematically sound...not sure if you did the math on this but Q-high flush is a fav. over a random flush, J-high is a dog.

[/ QUOTE ]

thats so wierd cuz when i saw this hand i thought the exact same thing as ae and im def not a math based player

Re: 25/50 HU vs unknown, river decision with Q high flush
 

5-,7-,8-,T-,J-, us, K-, A-

you guys sure about that?

Re: 25/50 HU vs unknown, river decision with Q high flush
 

not that it matters at all, because the likelihood of him having the certain flush draws is higher with the way he played it

Re: 25/50 HU vs unknown, river decision with Q high flush
 

[ QUOTE ]
5-,7-,8-,T-,J-, us, K-, A-

you guys sure about that?

[/ QUOTE ]

youre probably not a math major, i'm guessing?

Re: 25/50 HU vs unknown, river decision with Q high flush
 

lucky guess

Re: 25/50 HU vs unknown, river decision with Q high flush
 

think about the handshake problem

edit: i realize i'm being a jerk because it's fun but if this is the way you think about combinations (esp with respect to flushes) it could be very problematic in your off-the-cuff poker analysis while playing

Re: 25/50 HU vs unknown, river decision with Q high flush
 

gp,

it's hard to make a 2 high flush yo!

Re: 25/50 HU vs unknown, river decision with Q high flush
 

[ QUOTE ]
gp,

it's hard to make a 2 high flush yo!

[/ QUOTE ]i didn't say that

duck its cool were still friends i guess

Re: 25/50 HU vs unknown, river decision with Q high flush
 

[ QUOTE ]
5-,7-,8-,T-,J-, us, K-, A-

you guys sure about that?

[/ QUOTE ]

we're saying you are right, that the q high flush would be a much better shove b/c u are a mathematical favorite over a random flush, and that a j high flush is a dog over a random flush (math is fun, for everyone, except my opponents...)--so if we assume he has a flush (and not more) then shoving a q high flush would make a lot more sense than shoving a j-high flush.

as far as likelihood of him having the flushes, it's certainly not random, his range would be more heavily tilted towards him having higher flushes, for obvious reasons. this would make shoving a j-high flush pretty damn bad.

fwiw, the board is paired here, but i'm guessing he'd go for a cr with a house? dunno...

Re: 25/50 HU vs unknown, river decision with Q high flush
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i'd flat the jack high flush and shove the q high flush

[/ QUOTE ]

this is actually very mathematically sound...not sure if you did the math on this but Q-high flush is a fav. over a random flush, J-high is a dog.

[/ QUOTE ]

thats so wierd cuz when i saw this hand i thought the exact same thing as ae and im def not a math based player

[/ QUOTE ]

dudes i just randomly thought/said that. i can assure you if you think i did that math your'e confusing me for someone a lot smarter than me.

Re: 25/50 HU vs unknown, river decision with Q high flush
 

who the [censored] actually plays based on math anyway. my playing style is quite simply "call or raise when you want to win the pot"

also id raise the river 100% of the time

Re: 25/50 HU vs unknown, river decision with Q high flush
 

call or raise the river with Q high flush. it can be nut hand. or if your opp reraise you folded it hard guess really. and has k high or ace it sucks if that happen

Re: 25/50 HU vs unknown, river decision with Q high flush
 

Ok, thanks for comments every1.

I tanked and wind up calling, considered all options tbh, not fold for too long though.

I'm not quite sure, but I still think I made the right decision. Not trying to be stubborn or anything.

Not that it matters, but for the curious posters: villain showed Kh5h