Value bet or not?
 

Hand #1

Villain is Payformyaudis5

Full Tilt Poker ($30/$60 Limit Hold'em) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, Button folds, SB folds, BB calls.

Flop: (5.5 SB) [5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (5.25 BB) [5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB calls.

River: (10.25 BB) [5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]]
BB Checks, ...


Hand #2

Villain is acmak10

Full Tilt Poker ($30/$60 Limit Hold'em) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, Button folds, SB calls, BB folds.

Flop: (5.5 SB) [5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, SB calls.

Turn: (3.75 BB) [5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, SB calls.

River: (5.75 BB) [5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]]
SB Checks, ...

Re: Value bet or not?
 

Got any stats/reads on these guys? I don't play on Stars.

Re: Value bet or not?
 

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Got any stats/reads on these guys? I only play on Stars.

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Re: Value bet or not?
 

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Got any stats/reads on these guys? I only play on Stars.

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well i dont play with HUD... but payformyaudi is pretty aggressive winning type. (37/28/1.9 over 300 hands only)

acmak10 is more passive, calling stationy imo. (50/25/1)

Re: Value bet or not?
 

Hand 2 looks like an easy bet and hand 1 looks like an easy don't raise the turn because I think he should 3bet you with anything he c/r the flop with.

Re: Value bet or not?
 

I don't raise the turn in hand 1. As played I bet both of these rivers, but its somewhat thin...

Re: Value bet or not?
 

Agree with both HOWMANY and Tryptamean.

-DeathDonkey

Re: Value bet or not?
 

Hand 1: I don't see us being ahead &gt;50% when he calls (and I wouldn't raise the turn here either).

Hand 2: Bet. Usually we would have heard from a queen or a ten by now.

Re: Value bet or not?
 

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I don't raise the turn in hand 1. As played I bet both of these rivers, but its somewhat thin...

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if you dont raise the turn because you dont think you are winning that often then why would you value bet the river?

Re: Value bet or not?
 

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I don't raise the turn in hand 1. As played I bet both of these rivers, but its somewhat thin...

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if you dont raise the turn because you dont think you are winning that often then why would you value bet the river?

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If I raised the turn and he just calls, there are still plenty of hands in his range that will pay off, and you just sucked out on 54.

However, the advantages to calling the turn is, if I'm behind, I have to fold to his 3bet and give up my equity to suck out. It will be rare, but sometimes he will 3bet semi bluff, I'd rather not give hmi that opportunity if he's unknown. Lastly, a lot of players will fire the river anyway if they are semi-bluffing with 6x and have no showdown value.

Re: Value bet or not?
 

hand 1 there is no reason to check the river...i mean seriously why would you.

hand 2 i dont know villian but when he c/c two streets his range is pretty heavily weighted towards a T or a five, probably more so towards a T so i'd check.

Re: Value bet or not?
 

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I don't raise the turn in hand 1. As played I bet both of these rivers, but its somewhat thin...

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if you dont raise the turn because you dont think you are winning that often then why would you value bet the river?

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the fact that he bet the turn but checked the river probably has something to do with this.

Re: Value bet or not?
 

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Hand 2 looks like an easy bet and hand 1 looks like an easy don't raise the turn because I think he should 3bet you with anything he c/r the flop with.

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and since he didnt 3bet turn that makes river super easy valuebet.

Re: Value bet or not?
 

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Hand 2 looks like an easy bet and hand 1 looks like an easy don't raise the turn because I think he should 3bet you with anything he c/r the flop with.



[/ QUOTE ] and since he didnt 3bet turn that makes river super easy valuebet.

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?? I don't know what you guys are talking about here. Why should villain be 3betting this turn at all often? This guy is a fairly solid lagtag, so his flop c/r range should be pretty wide. We should usually have a Q with this line. The times we don't, we'll have a monster or AA/KK, or will be folding to a 3bet. So he should not be 3betting 66 or or 4x, 5x, 7x. He should just call them down.

Given the play, I don't see why the VB is good. Hands he calls with are overpairs, and any 4,5, or 7. Why are we ahead of this range?

I'm either 3betting the flop, or calling down the c/r (bet when checked to), depending on more specific reads.

Re: Value bet or not?
 

wow i did not see that you raised the turn in hand 1.

Re: Value bet or not?
 

yeah now that i stove it, it def. seems like a check:

obv. i tried to make his range up with hands he could play this way until this point:

Board: 4c 5s 7d Qh Qs
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 44.860% 43.93% 00.93% 47 1.00 { Kc5c }
Hand 1: 55.140% 54.21% 00.93% 58 1.00 { 66, A7s-A4s, K7s-K4s, T7s, 97s, 87s, 85s, 76s, 64s, 65s, A7o-A4o, 87o, 76o, 65o }

assuming he calls with every hand that makes it to the river (which is not the case) you are still putting a bet in with the worst hand on average.

Re: Value bet or not?
 

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Hand 2 looks like an easy bet and hand 1 looks like an easy don't raise the turn because I think he should 3bet you with anything he c/r the flop with.



[/ QUOTE ] and since he didnt 3bet turn that makes river super easy valuebet.

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?? I don't know what you guys are talking about here. Why should villain be 3betting this turn at all often? This guy is a fairly solid lagtag, so his flop c/r range should be pretty wide. We should usually have a Q with this line. The times we don't, we'll have a monster or AA/KK, or will be folding to a 3bet. So he should not be 3betting 66 or or 4x, 5x, 7x. He should just call them down.

Given the play, I don't see why the VB is good. Hands he calls with are overpairs, and any 4,5, or 7. Why are we ahead of this range?

I'm either 3betting the flop, or calling down the c/r (bet when checked to), depending on more specific reads.

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blah, i didnt play limit for awhile and now i get called in this spot by ace high like always. so my suggestion is to just everyone change your screenname and get paid off like its party.

Re: Value bet or not?
 

i think in hand 1 people are overvaluing villains range. Put yourself in his shoes and think about ALL the hands you are checkraising against me. i feel like it is much wider the you are offering in analysis thus far.

Re: Value bet or not?
 

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Put yourself in his shoes and think about ALL the hands you are checkraising against me that call a turn raise and a river bet. i feel like it is much wider the you are offering in analysis thus far.

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I think you're missing an important part of the thought process.

Re: Value bet or not?
 

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Put yourself in his shoes and think about ALL the hands you are checkraising against me that call a turn raise and a river bet. i feel like it is much wider the you are offering in analysis thus far.

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I think you're missing an important part of the thought process.

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i dunno, once people call the turn in these online higher stakes games, they are rarely folding the river nowadays

Re: Value bet or not?
 

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i dunno, once people call the turn in these online higher stakes games, they are rarely folding the river nowadays

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[censored], you're right. I didn't think about that. He's definitely looking you up with his 96s.

Re: Value bet or not?
 

Ok. I really don't get hand 1 at all. Nearly everyone is saying to value bet this and I don't understand. I also don't understand why people are saying that villian should 3-bet the turn with all of the hands he should C/R the flop with. I must be missing something there as well because if I had A7 I would C/R the flop but would not 3-bet the turn and would consider 3-betting the turn to be a fair bit spewy. Am I crazy here?

I also think that joker122's range looks pretty close and is a clear check behind.

Didn't you raise the turn mainly as a free showdown raise? That's the only reason it makes sense to me to do it.

Re: Value bet or not?
 

i raised the turn because i think i have the best hand a good majority of the time on the turn.

i feel like villain is c/r almost any hand taht contains a 4, 5, 3, 6 or 8 in his hand.

i dunno i kinda suck

Re: Value bet or not?
 

hand 1 bet and expect to win about 100% of the time.

hand 2 depends on flow i think it is a bet as i cannot see what he has that would beat you that would not raise at some point but i also cannot give him anyhting cept like 33-77.
dave

Re: Value bet or not?
 

hand 1 is close imo, what are you trying to get value at ? a4, 56s, 58s, 45s ? you can't really beat much after he call your turn raise and river bet. if you called turn and checked to, its a bet 100% of the time. beside, you got 2 bet againts a drawing hand on the turn already. the bet itself probably -ev, but it will increase ur spewage image so it maybe 0ev move if it gets to showdown

definitely a vb for hand 2, cos i expect a cr on flop if he has a 10

Re: Value bet or not?
 

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hand 1 bet and expect to win about 100% of the time.


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hand 1 I check and expect to win maybe 30% of the time. But I don't raise turn without read either.

Re: Value bet or not?
 

value betting in both spots for me.

Re: Value bet or not?
 

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Hand 2 looks like an easy bet and hand 1 looks like an easy don't raise the turn because I think he should 3bet you with anything he c/r the flop with.



[/ QUOTE ] and since he didnt 3bet turn that makes river super easy valuebet.

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?? I don't know what you guys are talking about here. Why should villain be 3betting this turn at all often?

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He shouldn't ever be.

Re: Value bet or not?
 

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Put yourself in his shoes and think about ALL the hands you are checkraising against me that call a turn raise and a river bet. i feel like it is much wider the you are offering in analysis thus far.

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I think you're missing an important part of the thought process.

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i dunno, once people call the turn in these online higher stakes games, they are rarely folding the river nowadays

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yeah, but you don't beat anything that calls.

Re: Value bet or not?
 

Bet 'em both.